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"I never shall be a white man again: race and junior...." Topic


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19th Century
World War One

904 hits since 9 Feb 2019
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Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP09 Feb 2019 9:21 p.m. PST

….officers in the Mexican War

"Throughout the Mexican War, the impact of professionalization was felt on the battlefields of Mexico. This professionalism did not, and could not insulate these officers from social issues such as race. When American junior officers viewed the filthy conditions in Mexico, they argued that these conditions could only be explained by the racial inferiority of the Mexican people as a race. Volunteers and regulars reacted to these issues in exactly the same manner. This fact challenged the traditional fears that a professional standing army would become disconnected with the society they protected, and would thus become despotic. Similarly, the excesses of the volunteers demonstrated that they were not the paragon of virtue which many in the US hoped."
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Amicalement
Armand

goragrad09 Feb 2019 10:24 p.m. PST

A full access is a little steep…

Waco Joe10 Feb 2019 8:49 a.m. PST

Welcome to the world of academic journals. frown

Aapsych2010 Feb 2019 1:11 p.m. PST

I think it's more than fair that the traditional rhetorics of American involvement in neighborhood wars are being challenged in a studious and scholarly way. If getting to know and understand the important details of history is valuable to someone, then this kind of thing is certainly a worthwhile exploration.

Legion 410 Feb 2019 3:14 p.m. PST

This fact challenged the traditional fears that a professional standing army would become disconnected with the society they protected, and would thus become despotic
Short answer – No …


Welcome to the world of academic journals
Short answer – Yes …

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP10 Feb 2019 3:32 p.m. PST

(smile)

Amicalement
Armand

Aapsych2010 Feb 2019 11:06 p.m. PST

Acusing academic scholarship of bias in order to de-legitimize it, is what people did to Galileo because his work didn't match their self-interest. The parallels are unmistakable.

Legion 410 Feb 2019 11:57 p.m. PST

This fact challenged the traditional fears that a professional standing army would become disconnected with the society they protected, and would thus become despotic
This I pretty much know for a fact. that this would probably never happen in the US or many other counties, e.g. Western European nations …

But yes, based on my experiences … I'm biased … And certainly not an academic.

"I don't have a PhD but I do have a DD-214", I recently saw this on a T-shirt. evil grin

When American junior officers viewed the filthy conditions in Mexico, they argued that these conditions could only be explained by the racial inferiority of the Mexican people as a race.
We all know today this is blatantly false.

Similarly, the excesses of the volunteers demonstrated that they were not the paragon of virtue which many in the US hoped."
This does not surprise me as generally at that time many/most forces other than professional didn't have the order and disciple. To the same level, etc., as the professionals did …

But again I'm a bit biased being a former military professional for over a decade in my long passed youth … old fart

coolyork14 Feb 2019 9:02 a.m. PST

I am offended by this thread , and I don't have to explain myself !

Legion 414 Feb 2019 3:05 p.m. PST

Just for my own knowledge .. Which/what offends you :

The comments about Mexicans from the US Army of that time …


Comments about academics ?


Comments about the military ?

coolyork14 Feb 2019 5:13 p.m. PST

I as a white American male just felt like be offended for once ! I think the topic of rather or not American soldiers in the Mex/Us war where racist is a unnecessary topic on a wargaming list . Don't we have to deal with enough of this crap every time we turn on the TV etc… If it had some bearing on how many figures I need to make up a Mexican Inf. unit or what happened at Buena Vista or what color to paint the buttons on the US Dragoon tunics fine . But to decide rather or not people in the 1840s where racist ( considering we have no idea what that was like) is a fools errand ! Lets just play games and let the rest of the world fiddle while Rome burns ! Pretty please

Legion 415 Feb 2019 9:19 a.m. PST

True … but it is a part of history. And we discuss that here too. However, I do agree we are bombarded by such topics in the media. But again, it is what currently is happening and by tomorrow will be history …

coolyork15 Feb 2019 5:02 p.m. PST

No I get it ! Im really not that thinned skinned either , just tired all the crap. You guys want to talk about thats fine obviously . And of course no ones making me participate on this tread . So let me apologize , bow out and wish you all a good day .

arthur181516 Feb 2019 2:58 a.m. PST

The simple truth is that in the past many individuals/societies held, or tolerated without protest, behaviours and attitudes that we today think racist, misogynistic, sexist, superstitious, cruel &c. &c. Whilst we can admire people like Wilberforce, who promoted more liberal, tolerant views, it is somewhat pointless to criticise individuals for not espousing radical attitudes that were not the 'norm' in their time.

In the UK there have been articles criticising Nelson for not opposing slavery – but that doesn't mean he wasn't an excellent naval officer, any more than Wellington's social snobbery, unwillingness to extend the franchise or serial adultery disqualifies him from commanding at Waterloo!

No doubt those of us who are not vegetarians/vegans will be castigated for being carnivores by future generations…

coolyork16 Feb 2019 12:56 p.m. PST

arthur1815 Much better said then my clumsy , emoitional ranting ! Thanks

Legion 416 Feb 2019 8:58 p.m. PST

No doubt those of us who are not vegetarians/vegans will be castigated for being carnivores by future generations…
You are probably right … frown

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