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"1 Day Registration Fee for Cold Wars" Topic


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Action Log

07 Feb 2019 10:27 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Changed title from "1 Day Reistration Fee for Cold Wars" to "1 Day Registration Fee for Cold Wars"


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786 hits since 7 Feb 2019
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Personal logo 7th Va Cavalry Supporting Member of TMP07 Feb 2019 7:51 a.m. PST

The fee is now $30 USD? I wasn't at Fall In so this is new to me. When did it go up? What does one actually get for that price?

Winston Smith07 Feb 2019 8:04 a.m. PST

The right to shop, Roger!

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP07 Feb 2019 8:32 a.m. PST

Registration lets you shop and play games.

Wackmole9 Supporting Member of TMP07 Feb 2019 9:20 a.m. PST

Don't forget you get access to the "Host's" new Amenities and a new starbucks.

cepammi07 Feb 2019 9:43 a.m. PST

You can also spend lots of money at the flea market.

historygamer Supporting Member of TMP07 Feb 2019 11:05 a.m. PST

Maybe it's just me, but I think HMGS has killed a lot of their one-day attendance. It would be interesting to note what is was, say 10 years ago and as a portion of the overall attendance, vs what it has been of late.

I'd also point out that when you raise prices like that, you incentivize people to cheat. Not that some need any more incentive.

Personal logo 7th Va Cavalry Supporting Member of TMP07 Feb 2019 12:10 p.m. PST

How many individuals read the marquis outside and would like to check it out until they walk up to registration? Or some person who doesn't have enough for both registration and to spend in the dealer hall or flea.
How about $10 USD for the day, color coded so you can shop and watch but can't participate in games.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP07 Feb 2019 3:03 p.m. PST

Don't tell us, 7th: suggest it to the Board.

But you're right about the amenities, Wackmole: all that sheet rock and the smell of mastic took me back to my youth as a carpenter. A pity they couldn't go just a little further forward and give me C-rats in the goodie bag. Nothing like a little C-rat pound cake in the evening when it turns out the restaurant is still closed.

rmcaras Supporting Member of TMP07 Feb 2019 5:22 p.m. PST

Don't forget you get access to the "Host's" new Amenities and a new starbucks.

And the Starbucks will be about as expensive!

vagamer63 Supporting Member of TMP07 Feb 2019 7:39 p.m. PST

Or, you could do what many do just walk in the door, play all the games you want in a day, shop in the Flea Market, then find a friend who did pay to get in, and borrow his Badge to gain access to the Vendor Area to shop. Then still enjoy all the Hotel Amenities and Facilities' to your heart's content before heading home. Saving yourself the $30.00 USD fee to boot!

Tumbleweed Supporting Member of TMP07 Feb 2019 8:21 p.m. PST

mmmmm…….C-rat pound cake……..

Tumbleweed Supporting Member of TMP07 Feb 2019 8:22 p.m. PST

mmmmm….C-rat pound cake….

historygamer Supporting Member of TMP08 Feb 2019 9:14 a.m. PST

"Or, you could do what many do just walk in the door, play all the games you want in a day, shop in the Flea Market, then find a friend who did pay to get in, and borrow his Badge to gain access to the Vendor Area to shop. Then still enjoy all the Hotel Amenities and Facilities' to your heart's content before heading home. Saving yourself the $30.00 USD USD fee to boot!"

Hand stamp or photo on the badge would fix that problem, at least for access to the dealer hall.

Personal logo Milhouse Supporting Member of TMP08 Feb 2019 9:52 a.m. PST

Sounds like historygamer has figured out HMGS con arbitrage

vagamer63 Supporting Member of TMP08 Feb 2019 10:40 a.m. PST

Probably, as the technology for hand stamps and photo printing on badges are as readily available to the general public as they are to the folks running the conventions.

historygamer Supporting Member of TMP08 Feb 2019 12:43 p.m. PST

So you think someone is going to show up with a case full of hand stamps, hoping to have brought the right one, or perhaps bring a computer and printer too? They do all that they deserve to get in free. LoL

Winston Smith08 Feb 2019 3:08 p.m. PST

I've always wondered why HMGS needed to maintain a database. Why not just pass out badges?

TheKing3008 Feb 2019 3:31 p.m. PST

Or, you could do what many do just walk in the door, play all the games you want in a day, shop in the Flea Market, then find a friend who did pay to get in, and borrow his Badge to gain access to the Vendor Area to shop. Then still enjoy all the Hotel Amenities and Facilities' to your heart's content before heading home. Saving yourself the $30.00 USD USD fee to boot!

Are you really that cheap? You're bragging about beating someone out of 30.00? I hope this was meant to be sarcastic.

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP08 Feb 2019 5:51 p.m. PST

He's probably being rhetorical.

Personal logo 7th Va Cavalry Supporting Member of TMP09 Feb 2019 6:52 a.m. PST

It's not a matter of cheap. 30 bucks could go toward something else. I'm not necessarily saying it should e free. But that's a little high for people who have no interest in staying for the entire week end or even getting involved in playing any games. I'm talking about the guy, or girl or whatever these days who comes in for several hours checks things out, shops and leaves.

Double G Sponsoring Member of TMP09 Feb 2019 7:28 a.m. PST

"I'm talking about the guy, or girl or whatever these days who comes in for several hours checks things out, shops and leaves."

The day tripper concept is a thing of the past, I've noticed it the past several years. Saturday used to be a very busy day, no longer the case, at least for me. For CW, Historicon and FI, Friday/Thursday/Friday have been very busy for me, Saturday, Friday/Saturday and Saturday, not so much, Sunday is a non starter at all three.

The dealer hall is just not the draw it used to be for whatever reason, you should ask the people who no longer day trip as to why.

First and foremost, it's a GAMING convention, the vast majority of the people who attend are there to GAME, as they should be.

I'm curious what percentage of the attendees show up on Saturday, pay their money, shop, flea and then leave, no hotel bill, not much in the way of meals either.

It's a sign of the times…………….as a dealer, I no longer promote the Saturday day tripper concept, I don't want to incur someones wrath about dropping 30.00 to shop, had it happen to me at Historicon a few years ago and it was not pleasant.

TSD10109 Feb 2019 8:35 a.m. PST

Are you really that cheap? You're bragging about beating someone out of 30.00?

He's not, he doesn't attend HMGS conventions since Historicon left F'burg.

Personal logo Milhouse Supporting Member of TMP09 Feb 2019 12:53 p.m. PST

The $30 USD kills the day tripper pure shopper.

Ploogak09 Feb 2019 6:24 p.m. PST

It's my understanding the price increase was to discourage people from buying two badges to the same event which made more work reconciling. So to keep the price for one day the same at every show, which makes sense since what you can do in one day is about the same at every show, the price was increased to $30 USD to make the price of two single day badges not less than the price of a full show non-member Historicon badge. That's how it was explained to me anyways. – Joby

47Ronin10 Feb 2019 1:31 p.m. PST

I've looked at all the comments above.

Two observations in reply:

1) For years, I've sat in the flea market for at least three hours at every HMGS convention. One of the things that I do during that time is look at badges. In the past, badges were color coded by type, i.e. weekend, one day, staff, GM, etc. There were always plenty of one day badges passing through the flea market on Saturday. HMGS has moved on to badges with bar codes, but they can still track weekend vs. one day attendance.

2) If you think that "day trippers" are down (and HMGS has the means to track this), the solution is easy and obvious: "SUNDAY is FREE DAY" at all HMGS cons.

Sunday is an underused resource at most cons, including those run by HMGS:

--there are usually a dozen or so Sunday games in the PEL (many run by the HAWKS). The rest of the hotel is available for open gaming and pick up games.

--the flea market is already free for buyers and sellers.

--if you open the Vendor Hall to all on Sunday, badge or no badge, you encourage day trippers to show up early on Sunday to shop. After that, they can run their own games, jump into one of the ongoing games or go home.

Vendors may want to leave on Sunday, but a new group of buyers might give them an incentive to stick around.

Sunday day trippers could avoid most convention and hotel costs and just show up to shop.

If you want more than a few hours at a convention, or if you really want to play games, then pay for the one day (or all weekend) badge. If you just want to "drive through," show up on Sunday.

It's up to the convention directors. For HMGS, it might be worth doing on an experimental basis, say at Fall In 2019. Probably too late for Cold Wars because you really have to market the fact that Sunday is free.

You have to balance the potential gain to the Vendors vs. the loss in one day/weekend attendance fees to HMGS. Either way, it makes greater use of the facility (which is already paid for) on Sunday.

I'm sure someone will bring this up at a future HMGS meeting.

We'll see.

Double G Sponsoring Member of TMP10 Feb 2019 2:05 p.m. PST

"I'm sure someone will bring this up at a future HMGS meeting."

Yeah……………I hope not.

TSD10110 Feb 2019 4:09 p.m. PST

Yeah……………I hope not.

Sorry if I am misunderstanding, but aren't you a vendor, and wouldn't having more people on Sunday who wouldn't normally show up because of cost only increase the possibility of having a positive financial outcome for Sunday?

Double G Sponsoring Member of TMP10 Feb 2019 4:43 p.m. PST

"Sorry if I am misunderstanding, but aren't you a vendor, and wouldn't having more people on Sunday who wouldn't normally show up because of cost only increase the possibility of having a positive financial outcome for Sunday?"

Yes, I am a vendor; Sunday is, was and always will be get away day. Attendees breeze through the dealer hall for one last pass, then head home.

The Dealer hall is open until noon, so make your last few purchases, then head home is the norm.

What is the suggestion here, keep the Dealer hall open till 5:00PM, then start breaking down displays? And do what, head home at midnight?

No thanks.

The Dealer hall is open 18 hours for CW and FI and 27 hours for Historicon; it's busy maybe 9 hours for CW and FI and 15 hours for Historicon, other times it's a ghost town, being open another 5 hours on Sunday is not going to change a thing.

I'm a one man operation and need to get home on Sunday, reopen my Ebay store and get back to work bright and early on Monday, I don't need to roll into my driveway at 4:00AM and be a zombie all day Monday, or worse yet, stay over Sunday night and battle rush hour traffic twice to get home on Monday.

Again, no thanks, but keep those cards and letters coming chock full of ideas.

Ploogak10 Feb 2019 5:16 p.m. PST

FYI relevant to the conversation. A quick pull of the data back to 2014 (the year they switched to YM and we have actual data to check) shows Historicon Saturday one-day badges as:
2014 – 316
2015 – 158
2016 – 251
2017 – 259
2018 – 304
Joby

TSD10110 Feb 2019 5:16 p.m. PST

Again, no thanks, but keep those cards and letters coming chock full of ideas.

I had assumed that making Sunday free wouldn't change the hours, Dealer Hall would still close at noon.

47Ronin11 Feb 2019 10:17 a.m. PST

I always look forward to the responses that I get here on TMP. Thanks for not disappointing.

Joby,

Thanks for the prompt reply with the data on one day badges at Historicon. As I suspected, the numbers have been pretty consistent. The lean years can be attributed to the change of venue.

Double G,

Nobody said anything about extending the hours at the Vendor Hall on Sunday. I appreciate your concerns. Many of us have long standing relationships with various dealers at HMGS conventions, not just as buyers but as hosts for sponsored games. We know how many hours the vendors put in when it comes to making the shows a success. I've been there on both "moving days"-set up day and breakdown day--and have seen how much effort is required. As a general rule, I'm in favor of letting the vendors do pretty much whatever they want, including leaving early. After all, they are paying for the space.

The suggestion was made that HMGS conventions were no longer "day tripper friendly" given the cost of a one day badge. The numbers provided by Joby tend to refute that assertion. Either way, for years I've heard the "shopping should be free" argument both here on TMP and at the conventions. I've never been persuaded by that argument for a variety of reasons. Nevertheless, having a "No Badge Sunday" experiment at one of the (smaller) conventions would be a way of possibly attracting more visitors and shoppers to the Vendor Hall before it shuts down at Noon.

Anyone within say a 1-2.5 hour driving range of an HMGS show could leave home in the early morning, get to the convention by 10am Sunday, make a quick pass through the flea market and still spend a couple of hours in the Vendor Hall, all before it closes at Noon. Follow that up with brunch or a pick up game with friends and you are still home well before dinner. Total cost is limited to travel expenses plus whatever is spent in the Vendor Hall and flea market.

If HMGS thinks the experiment is worth trying, maybe they'll do it, if for no other reason than to end the "shopping should be free" debate. (To borrow a phrase, "if you build it," maybe they won't come after all.) Even without badges, HMGS could still collect contact information from those visiting the Vendor Hall.

Like I said, we'll see.

Ploogak11 Feb 2019 10:29 a.m. PST

I'm actually in favor of extending the show on Sunday though not necessarily extending the exhibitor hours that day. What do people think about starting the free Wally's on Sunday at noon when the exhibit hall closes so they don't overlap? Is there anything we can add to the show on Sunday that would encourage you guys to stay longer? – Joby

kcabai11 Feb 2019 10:31 a.m. PST

Well put 47Ronin.

At HMGS-Midwest, we debated this for some time. Last year we came up with a workable solution and we will repeat it this year. We offer a $5 USD Shoppers Badge, good for any day of the con. It is a nominal fee, and it can be upgraded to a full day badge if wanted. The most significant part it allows us to collect contact information and gives us a handle on numbers of shopper-only attendees. Last year we had 50 people get the badge, and 6 upgraded.

Double G Sponsoring Member of TMP11 Feb 2019 2:09 p.m. PST

47Ronin; thanks for the clarification. Sunday being a free day wouldn't be a bad idea, all I can say it give it a shot and see what happens, I wish you luck in getting this done.

historygamer Supporting Member of TMP11 Feb 2019 5:18 p.m. PST

Thanks for the update on numbers, Joby. Any idea what they used to look like 2010 and prior? I think all the numbers posted are for the FCC and the Host last year. Just curious what the trend has been over the years.

On the Sunday idea – long been a hope of HMGS, but so many people leave on Saturday now that I think the boat for expanding Sunday left long ago. I know I like to head home to get stuff down prior to the coming work week.

historygamer Supporting Member of TMP11 Feb 2019 5:22 p.m. PST

I know that the fashion design the hotel has gone with is all the rage, but I find it cold and uninviting. That said, it would not stop me from going.

Double G Sponsoring Member of TMP11 Feb 2019 5:38 p.m. PST

"I know that the fashion design the hotel has gone with is all the rage, but I find it cold and uninviting."

Yeah, for our conventions sake, hobo chic would have been more appropriate.

Personal logo Milhouse Supporting Member of TMP11 Feb 2019 5:40 p.m. PST

The "Hobo Mojo" as it's known on Madison Ave

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP11 Feb 2019 6:05 p.m. PST

After 24 hours the "Hobo Chic" will return………in the bathroom outside the Lampeter at least.

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