whill4 | 28 Jan 2019 10:32 a.m. PST |
We have heard and probably have said after playing a game that the game doesn't feel right for the period. So, my question is what characteristics contribute to making a Samurai game feel like a Samurai game? |
Pan Marek | 28 Jan 2019 10:48 a.m. PST |
This is a very good question. Not just for Samurai, but also for any wargame. Skirmish rules, in particular, often seem so generic that they could fit any period. |
whill4 | 28 Jan 2019 10:55 a.m. PST |
Exactly. A samurai game could just boil down to guys wacking each other swords or pole arms. Some of the guys will be better armoured and some will have higher morale or skill. What do you expect to see and experience when you are playing a samurai game? |
Frederick | 28 Jan 2019 11:19 a.m. PST |
Incentives to do crazy life-threatening things for the sake of honour alone |
dragon6 | 28 Jan 2019 11:51 a.m. PST |
Incentives to do crazy life-threatening things for the sake of honour alone If this is unique to Samurai why were there so many ronin in Japan? |
Tacitus | 28 Jan 2019 12:59 p.m. PST |
dragon6 and Frederick both have the right of it. For all the talk of saving face and the horror of shame, Ronin were a real thing. A real "warfare in the age of the Samurai" game should have both elements. But the challenge is to incorporate them with flavor. I can only speak to Test of Honour as an example. Yes, it has Ronin, but they are really just another unit with different cost and stats. |
Aethelflaeda was framed | 28 Jan 2019 1:01 p.m. PST |
Toshiro Mefuni on the cover of the rules? |
martin goddard | 28 Jan 2019 1:11 p.m. PST |
Peter Pig have a rule set called "battles in the age of war". these cover samuari battles but not skirmishes. link This is link if that is useful My opinion (for what it is worth!) No prioritised order. 1. Formalised battle layout. No great surprises. 2. Weak cavalry 3. presence of castles nearby. 4. Similarly armed opponents (arquebus introduction not simultaneous to all armies) 5. Samurai acting in units not just swinging about on their own. 6. The rise in value of the common soldier in Sendoku period. 7. No ninja units 8. Poor chap(s) carrying his master's banner on foot whilst the master trots along on his pony. 9. Personal challenges in the battle. 10. Very unpleasant sieges. |
Gone Fishing | 28 Jan 2019 1:31 p.m. PST |
A bottle of sake would help get you and your opponent in a suitable frame of mind. That, along with a meal of sushi accompanied by the light plucking of a samisen in the background (whether on cd or YouTube), would make the choice of rules distinctly secondary, if not irrelevant. And I'm only partly kidding! |
Saber6 | 28 Jan 2019 2:00 p.m. PST |
VP for Best 'Death Haiku' |
sillypoint | 28 Jan 2019 2:02 p.m. PST |
I've re written a set of rules, Using Japanese terms- taking "Ran" as my primary evidence of what a battle would look like. Thinking of allowing a Godzilla clause. 🤪 |
khanscom | 28 Jan 2019 3:19 p.m. PST |
For large- scale battles, it's probably the "uniforms", armor, and weaponry (and I will admit to playing in a DBM battle that pitted Samurai vs. Incas (not a good day for the Incas)). The most memorable and atmospheric game that I participated in was a semi- historical GURPS- based RPG with some fantasy elements added; the game masters were both fans of the Mifune samurai movies, Japanese anime, and Japanese history and culture. What made the game most effective was the role- playing aspect-- without that it would have been just another generic hack-and-slash skirmish. |
FoxtrotPapaRomeo | 28 Jan 2019 5:12 p.m. PST |
Japanese scenery – Bamboo forests, mountainous terrain, temples and shrines, ornate curved bridges, villages, buffalo and peasant farmers, paddy fields, Atakebune and smaller boats on the river or sea, speaking Japanese commands (omoshiroi!) I have some cheap Chinese ceramic buildings and peasants, resin vietnamese huts and metal pots and peasants and a flames of war rice paddy set. that are close enough. |
skipper John | 28 Jan 2019 6:18 p.m. PST |
It's the Sake! About the only time you will ever drink the stuff is when you play a Samurai game… Also, you spend a year painting those braids on their armor… gaming with a completed Samurai army is quite a unique experience. |
Benvartok | 29 Jan 2019 12:04 a.m. PST |
Sake and Seppuku, drink because if you lose you die. I second using Ran and perhaps Kagemusha or the Hidden Fortress films as inspiration for battlefields, armies etc. Kurosawa had a good vision of the time. |
Sisyphus | 29 Jan 2019 12:55 a.m. PST |
All players have to wear yukata, doff some nihonshu, pull in some less than savory ladies to have company, doff some more, have some fried octopus and play a few rounds before going off about if those metal soldiers really have a heart. Then struggle back to the last cart going home. Avoid your angry wife. |
John Leahy | 29 Jan 2019 9:45 a.m. PST |
Heaven and Earth has great battle scenes. |
miniMo | 29 Jan 2019 10:29 a.m. PST |
Samurai looking figures and Japanese looking terrain. |
whill4 | 29 Jan 2019 1:32 p.m. PST |
Thanks for the replies. So what I am getting is that its the appearance of the miniatures and the game table terrain. And I agree with this. Not so much special rules for the soldiers or weapons. |
Lion in the Stars | 29 Jan 2019 3:56 p.m. PST |
If you get down to it, the pieces I like are actually having heroic interventions possible (I use GW's War of the Ring mass-battle rules), but also not having them completely dominate the game. That's a fine balance! Another gameplay issues is the possibility of a unit betraying one side for the other. You need some in-game rewards for being first into battle (Ichiban Yari, 'First Spear'), there should also be rewards for taking the most heads. (These may work best either in Campaign or in multiplayer games) I also really like the pre-game sequence from Peter Pig's Battles in the Age of War, which gives bonuses to various 'interesting' events. Also, a couple sakura trees in bloom on the battlefield are mandatory. Dunno why nearly all Samurai battles take place in April … And of course the rest of the table-settings, like the small shrines and torii gates, bamboo groves, etc. |
WKeyser | 30 Jan 2019 3:53 a.m. PST |
It depends on what level you want to represent. For skirmish I want to see the difference between Samurai and Ashigaru, one is a warrior who lives to practice and fight, his skills are considerable, while the Ashiagaru is a farmer given some weapons and amour. When they fight I want to see the Samurai be able to wade into numerous ashigaru and defeat them, however at a certain point I do want the numbers of ashigaru to swamp the Samurai. In combat I want there to be a difference in weapons not just a to hit mod but pluses and negatives to each weapon. The closest I have come to seeing this in a game is Ronin, where you Samurai have lots of options in combat both offensive or defensive. For large scale battles I have not seen anything that comes close to what I have read in numerous Turnbul books or other English books on the period. Too often I just see a European based game with samurai figures, unfortunately a trend in gaming today the generic rules that you can use any figures with! However, I luckily came across a fantastic series of post on Lead Adventures where a gamer had been using a board game called Tenkatoitsu by a French company called Hexam. The way they use clans is fantastic and really captures the clan nature of warfare during the age of battles. Each clan has a number of counters depending on how large it is and each counter has a listing for firepower, samurai and ashigaru. Finally a set of rules that does not combine all the different weapon types into specific units (like a European army of the period). I have been working on some 10mm units to try these out and the funny thing is I had both boardgames in the series which I thought were great games but did not see the miniature potential in them.
link
Here is the link I really recommend this to anyone who would like to capture big battles in the age of wars in Japan. link |
Lion in the Stars | 30 Jan 2019 2:44 p.m. PST |
The GW Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit (and/or the historical Legends of the High Seas) rules actually work very well for having a few highly-skilled models that are capable of wading through a large number of mooks, but can eventually be brought down by sheer weight of numbers. LotHS, though long out of print now, is useful for adding firearms to the list of weapons. |