"Jon Snow Must Die" Topic

"I don't say this lightly: Jon Snow must die.

I like Jon, and way back in the ‘90s it was a vision of him—decked out in black, with a raven on his arm and a giant white wolf by his side—that inspired me to pick up that first A Song of Ice and Fire novel. He is the prototypical hero. Joseph Campbell would look at this kid growing from spoiled royal bastard to wise (sometimes) king and say "good job," because in the last two decades of fantasy fiction there have been few heroes so clearly cut from the model fantasy hero mold.

Which is why Jon has got to bite at some point during the six-part final season of the HBO television show. He's gotta die because the goal of George R.R. Martin's book saga is to rewrite the rules of fantasy, and a prototypical hero going from bastard to general to wise king is anything but a rewrite of those rules. When Game of Thrones first went to print in the late ‘90s, fantasy was in a rut. The books were bold because heroes weren't safe, villains could win, and everything was terribly hard for everyone. When a hero ended a journey in a place of reprieve it was almost always revealed to be just as deadly as the troubles they'd escaped…."
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Amicalement
Armand

Yeah, the problem with that is that it isn't Martin's story anymore its the TV show's story and do the show's fans want to go out on everybody dies or just the last of your favorite characters die moment…..I'm expecting it to be bloody in the losses of characters in the finale but I'm not sure the show will take the final gamble of killing of all of the favorites (Snow, Tyrion, Daenerys).

Do you mean Die Again?

He needs to live long enough to realize his auntie-lover is a true (psychotic) Targaryen and be forced to kill her.

Martin and the HBO guys are in agreement on how the show ends.
In interviews, all the cast will say is that the show will surprise everyone, you will be shocked, and they are satisfied.
That could mean anything.
Samuel L Jackson signed in to play Mace in Star Wars on the condition that he not have a "punk ass death". Being defenestrated by the Emperor is certainly not that, so he was satisfied.
Likewise, Jaime could be satisfied that his redemption arc allowed him to die heroically. Or to sit the Throne.
Arya could be satisfied by killing the Night King and saving the day while dying. Or sitting the Throne.
Tyrion could be revealed (annoyingly) as yet another Targaryen, but this time a bastard rather than legitimate. Ditto death or Throne.

My two predictions.
1. Jon is Azor Ahai. Dany will be Nissa Nissa. Longclaw will be Lightbringer. If you don't know what that means, I won't spoil it for you.

2. Gendry is the dark haired baby that Cersei lost and whose body she never saw. Yes. That contradicts the witch's prophecy, but that's already been thrown under the bus if she's pregnant. That makes him a Baratheon. Jon could legitimize him as both King in the North, and legitimate Targaryen heir/king. And Gendry also has Targaryen blood. The first Baratheon may have been a bastard brother of Aegon the Conqueror.

Minor prediction. Like Aragorn, and Oscar in Heinlein's Glory Road, Jon/Dany/Tyrion/Gendry will be bored silly by the "peace" that follows.

Good thread John… thanks! (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

Let's look at it from a fiction point of view.

Dany is grossly overpowered thanks to her dragons and is so much the "obvious choice" I'd eat my poleaxe if Martin didn't consider murderizing in a way that would make the Red Wedding look like a sedate garden party. She's crowned and Cersei's last order is to have her murdered or she is curbstomped by the Night King or turns "Big bad" and has to be put down.

Conversely Jon the first of his name "Not the Knowing" feels contrived, given that the has an emotional investment in his auntie odds are that he just steps away and goes back to the Night Watch or any other honourable exit. I don't quite see him die, but he might lose so much he might as well be.

I have the same vibe with Tyrion, he's too clever to aim for the highest position, he's always been best in the advisor/support role.

Arya is also on the likely to get offed list, though she might do a lot of damage before going down.

The character that has both gone through hell and grown into a force to be reckoned with is Sansa, if she marries the right person she would have a serious claim to the throne or at least get the North/ a chunk of the seven kingdoms

The Hound and Mountain will probably end up killing each other, I give Brienne 50/50 chance to get out alive and Bron is probably going to end up dead.

Jaimie and Cersei will have people line up to tapdance on their graves for all eternity though I figure that Cersei will have one hell of a kill streak before she goes down, she might even be the one that kills the Night King just to show off how badass dangerous she's become.

Thanks!

Interesting if Jaimie married Brienne… (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

The Night King will not survive.

Jon Snow will.

Arya will

Sansa will

Jon Snow will along with Dany will become the new King & Queen.

Sansa will get Winterhold and once the Night King bites the dust the effect he has on the Frozen North will be gone and the land of the Starks will be enlarge greatly.

Oh and yes Jaime will survive and more than likely marry Brienne.

Cersei…

Well she will be killed and more than likely by Jamie.

I would bet that she was born first and thus making Jamie her little brother.