"US Cavalry TO&Es - Battle of the Bulge?" Topic

I found this in an article on the 14th Cav, 106th Infantry Division, during the early days of the Battle of the Bulge:

"The U.S. Army's transition from horse cavalry to mechanized cavalry started in the late 1930s. By the time the United States entered the war in 1941, the force-structure alteration was well underway. The horse-mounted 14th Cavalry Regiment transitioned to a mechanized cavalry group in July 1943 under the command of COL Thomas Q. Donaldson Jr. Each cavalry group was assigned two cavalry reconnaissance squadrons (CRS). The squadrons were organized thusly:

Three cavalry troops, lettered A to C, each equipped with 13 M-8 armored cars or jeeps and an assault gun;

Troop E, equipped with six M-8 howitzer motor carriages;
Company F, equipped with a light tank and 17 M-5 Stuart tanks;

A service company; and

A headquarters and headquarters company".

Anyone know what vehicle they mean for the "assault gun" attached to the M-8 armored car units?

Perhaps that is a mistake, and they really are referring to the M8 HMCs (though there are 6 of those to a squadron).

Then again, perhaps if they really did exist, they're referring to a Sherman tank with the 105mm gun, or an M7 Priest.

In other TO&Es, I haven't seen the "assault gun(s)" mentioned.

Thoughts?

Also, anyone know if the 6 x M8 HMCs would be broken down, and allocated out to the M8 A.C. troops, say 2 per troop?

I did run across mention that the M8 HMCs were grouped into "two" platoons of THREE each, so perhaps the M8 troop "in reserve" doesn't get any, and the two other, forward deployed M8 troops get THREE each, if they are parceled out.

Given that they should be primarily used for indirect fire, I suspect commanders would prefer to keep them together.

However, as we all know, plans never survive first contact with the enemy, and stuff like that goes out the window.

The Cav troops weren't expected to fight defensively, and to have many of their men fight as infantry, during the German Ardennes Offensive, but they did with many units, nonetheless.

Ah, never mind.

Think I answered my own question.

Looks like it's someone's/my misinterpretation/presentation of the unit.

The semicolon in the text threw me. I think it would be clearer if it read "an assault gun Troop E".

There is only one assault gun troop (6 vehicles), and not one assault gun per M-8 troop.

Yes you have answered your own question. Just 1 assault gun troop with M8's.
Cavalry were expected to conduct screening and delaying actions so had some training in defensive combat, but were not expected to conduct a prolonged defence. 14th Cavalry Group were really unsuited to defend the Losheim Gap. Also note only 1 cavalry squadron was present at the start. The 32nd were still moving into position.

Talking about M8HMCs i read an interesting account of Germans capturing 2 during the Northwind Offensive in January `45 and using them against US tanks in a direct fire tank Vs tank way!! They didn`t last long, but it would be an interesting one-off encounter on a tabletop :)

Thanks.

Yes, I saw one reference with the semi-colon written as a period, which led to my confusion.

Hadn't seen that mentioned, Richard. That is interesting.

32nd was in refit near Honsfeld IIRC. The positions the 14th occupied had previously been held by an Infantry unit. I like to fight the battles around the Losheim Gap as it has lots of challenges to both sides.

I think there are also some other odd bits in that description:

Three cavalry troops, lettered A to C, each equipped with 13 M-8 armored cars or jeeps

Full strenght cavalry troop consisted of three platoons, each with 3 M8 armored cars and 6 jeeps, plus a further 3-4 armored cars and some other vehicles at the troops HQ. So the full strenght could be up to 13 M8 and a good number of jeeps.

Company F, equipped with a light tank and 17 M-5 Stuart tanks

This should probably have read as "equipped with 17 M5 Stuart light tanks".

As for the M8 HMC organisation, in cavalry squadrons I have always seen them organised into platoons of two on the paper. However, in armoured infantry battalions they were organised into a platoon of three.

That is how I read it 3 x M8 plus 6 jeeps per troop plus 4 or so in the HQ = 13

What I meant is that there are:

- 3 armoured cars per platoons x 3 platoons per troop + 4 (HQ) armoured cars per troop = 13 armoured cars per troop
- 6 jeeps per platoon x 3 platoons per troop + 6 (HQ) jeeps per troop = 24 jeeps per troop

Plus a few other vehicles at the troop HQ for logistics.

Yes i understood that

My wargames unit is:

3 x M8 + 6 x Jeep (three troops of 2 jeeps + an M8)
3 x M5
A halftrack + 2 jeeps + an M8HMC for the HQ

This lays it out pretty clearly:

link

You can drill down for more details. For example:

link

Of the 6 jeeps, IIRC, 3 had machineguns and 3 carried 60mm mortars.

Sounds right to me, and apparently most of the MGs on the Jeeps were not the .50 cals like shown on Rat Patrol back in the day, but really .30 cals.

Though, apparently some enterprising people did put .50s on their jeeps.

I also read that the floor of the jeep really didn't stand up well to the sustained fire of the .50, where the pintle mount joined that, which is probably why it was uncommon.

Seems like I read that they had .50s at first, but decided that jeeps weren't a strong enough platform for them, so changed to .30s. Can't cite a source for that, though.

In case you are planning to fire at infantry targets, I would think that .30 cal would be more practical: the ammunition is lighter but still hit hard. That said, if you are firing from a moving jeep then the chances of actually hitting somebody might not be very high – but the suppressive effect should help the jeep to get back to safety.

Also, if you need to dismount the MG for ground use, then .30 cal is much handier.

For shooting at aerial targets the .50 cal would be preferable, though.

The earlier T/Os for Cav/Rcn units do show a mix of .30 and .50-cal MGs on Platoon Jeeps, which changes to all .30-cals during 1943.

Gary

I think the Rat Patrol guys proved you need .50 cals to knock out German tanks in the desert though.

.30s just aren't good enough for that. ;-)