"40K Should a Ork be Equal to Space Marine" Topic

Having been out of 40K for a while I was surprised to find that in the current 8th Edition of 40K an Ork has the same stats as a Space Marine (Non Primaris).

I always felt it was wrong. That a common Ork boy would have the Weapon Skill, Strength, and Toughness of one of the Emperor's finest Engineered Super Humans.

What are your thoughts.

I don't see anything different compared to the three previous editions.

Ork Boy
M 5" BS 5+ WS 3+ S 4 T 4 W 1 A 2 LD 6 Sv 6+

Space Marine
M 6" BS 3+ WS 3+ S 4 T 4 W 1 A 1 LD 7 Sv 3+

The Orks are tough muscle-bound brutes whose forte' is close combat melee so their WS and A values are high. Their marksmanship leave a lot to be desired as we would expect. Without Initiative in the current edition, a Marine is given an extra inch of movement compared to an ork and his power armor confers the usual 3+ save. His LD is also higher as expected.

Reducing the WS, S and T of an Ork wouldn't be right because then they would be the same as the puny Astra Militarum (aka Imperial Guard).

I'm a player since the Rogue Trader days. Im just getting back in in 2019.

I always thought your basic Boy should have equal strength and toughness to a marine but worse BS and WS and Initiative.

Not to mention the orks save is lousy.

Orks should be as said.

Damn I miss Rouge (sic) Trader's art.

Toughness I can see, Strength Maybe, but skill nope

but skill nope

Ballistic Skill "no," but Weapon (i.e. Close Combat) Skill definitely "yes" because Orks are bred for close combat. Orks even fight amongst themselves to see who's alpha. Close combat's practically their trademark and all they do.

Even a lowly Guardsman has a Weapon Skill of 4+ (not Conscript with a Weapon Skill of 5+) and Orks have to be better than that.

In previous editions the Weapon Skill, Strength and Toughness of Orks and Marines are exactly the same, but the Marines have better Ballistic Skill, Initiative (who strikes first in close combat), Leadership and Armor. Orks have an extra Attack (A) in close combat. Nothing's changed in the Marine/Ork equation except that Initiative was eliminated in the current edition.

I'm not an Ork player btw. I HATE Orks but their stats do match their fluff.

Bs no, ws yes??

Orcs are strong and brutal, stabbing or smashing things to bits. There is no skill there, they don't thrust and parry like a swordsman or what not. No, their ws should be low, but strength high.

Also. It's not that an orc is as good as a marine, it's the marine, being genetically altered, being as good as an orc. It is the Marines stats that are heightened above those of a normal human to be equal to an orc in some aspects.

I always felt that the Space Marines were not tough enough. They are advertised as 'The Galaxy's Toughest Warriors' but they really aren't that tough. Basic Space Marines ought to have the stats of Terminators and Terminators ought to be like Dreadnoughts. Of course, they should be priced like them as well, which would make for very small SM armies. :)