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"Any experts on Louis XVIII's Muskteers out there?" Topic


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Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP02 Dec 2018 3:23 a.m. PST

Now I can imagine few would be interested as these are hardly wargames material. They make the Duke of Cumberland's Hussars look like heroes.


I am working on the 2e Company, the Black Musketeers, descendants on the Cardinal's Guard but briefly recreated by Louis XVIII for his First Restoration.


I have many a picture, but have never seen a trumpeter of this company. The Grey Musketeers yes and there was a fleeting glimpse of one for the Black Ms in Waterloo 1970. I suspect reversed colours and maybe red crest and tail to helmet. Any ideas out there please?

Prince of Essling02 Dec 2018 9:03 a.m. PST

Based on the Mousquetaire Gris:

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versus Mousquetaire Noir:
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I would follow what happened with the Gris colours and utilise the equivalent of the Noir.
You really need to get hold of "Histoire de la Maison Militaire du Roi de 1814 a 1830" by Eugene Titeux (2 volumes) as that would hopefully give you the definitive answer – gallica has volume 1 but the illustrations are in black and white – I suspect Volume 2 is the one you really need but it is not on gallica.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP02 Dec 2018 10:32 a.m. PST

What a great answer. many thanks for the thought that went into this.

My French is not great but it can get me through a Paris restaurant or a hotel near the Louvre, but I have read Vol I of Titeux from the beginning to the end. I cannot find Vol II on line and real purchase is a serious expense, even if it had an illustration. If I had a copy though, I could find out if the company even had a trompette on strength (but surely they must).

The Grey musketeers (the 1e company), well illustrated as above, reversed colours and red instead of black ornaments on head gear (as for every other single unit of Maison du Roi)


The film Waterloo gives us a glimpse of a 2e Company Trompette, reversed colours but helmet as the rest. Was it not Mollo who advised and, if he got the rest of uniform detail so right, what did he know?

Let me again apologise to the vast majority who would dismiss this lot at a glance!


Must thank you again though for reinforcing what I suspect….

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP02 Dec 2018 11:20 a.m. PST

Do you not hate that you cannot edit errors in the title?

OK, my working idea, based on every other single unit of Maison du Roi, but never actually shown and assuming they had a guy wiv a trumpet…blimey…wotcha reckon? (on a grey of course wiv a blue saddle cloth)


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Prince of Essling02 Dec 2018 11:31 a.m. PST

Interesting – I do wonder if the coat was black for the trumpeter rather than blue (as the Gris trumpeter's blue coat reflected the colour of the armour). Saddlecloth for the Noir would therefore be black edged silver(??).

Interesting Knotel has this plate (not for the rumpeters):

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PeterEm02 Dec 2018 3:14 p.m. PST

Hi Deadhead,

Your reconstruction looks good, but why would you put your trumpeter on a grey horse?

It took me far too long to twig the main difference between the grey and black Mousquetaires, and I definitely wouldn't put the horse in reverse colours as well as the rider!

Peter

Nine pound round02 Dec 2018 5:26 p.m. PST

More fundamentally, Deadhead, what are you going to do? Are you painting and mounting the Maison du Roi, for what-if games?

Prince of Essling03 Dec 2018 4:57 a.m. PST

Another book that might have the answer is Auguste de Moltzheim "L'ARMÉE FRANÇAISE SOUS LA RESTAURATION – 1814-1830" but I suspect it is expensive….

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP03 Dec 2018 8:19 a.m. PST

Really grateful for the feedback.

The pictures are great. I had all already, but some here are MUCH higher resolution than I have ever found!


The grey horse? Well only I suppose because every other mounted unit of the Maison du Roi followed that practice…..but of course the 1e company stuck with greys for everyone. So it could well be right that a black musketeer (so called purely because of horse colour) would be same throughout the company. Yes…..I can see that.


The soubrevest, with the cross of St Louis on it, is not actually an armour cuirasse but cloth material. Both companies used dark blue but different lace (gold or silver).

Finally. Their purpose? Now that is a profound question. I fear the answer is a few photos in front of Louis XVIII and the few figures I have already done. then the attic awaits (where lie most of my figures)


de Moltzheim's book is hard to find and over $US 700. I wish……..

Prince of Essling03 Dec 2018 11:04 a.m. PST

Other useful Titeux planches

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Nine pound round06 Dec 2018 5:55 a.m. PST

Pretty, but probably Landwehr with an ACE of 16, in Empire terms.

Did they go into Spain in 1823? I can't imagine they did, but maybe?

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP06 Dec 2018 6:21 a.m. PST

They were so useless that Louis XVIII disbanded them immediately after the Second Restoration. They were not quite up to the standards of their illustrious predecessors.

But they were very pretty. Arguably, his Household troops had the smartest uniforms of the "Napoleonic Era".

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP06 Dec 2018 6:36 a.m. PST

Working on them today actually. Helmets still to finish, tails from the crest, lengthen coat tails. Swords and scabbards are altered to suit and muskets pinched from the dragoons. There is something else…………

Yes! The frilled shoulders and then undercoat!


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von Winterfeldt06 Dec 2018 11:14 a.m. PST

your sculpts are getting notably better – well done.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP06 Dec 2018 11:34 a.m. PST

His comments are much appreciated.

Never forgotten his plastic French cuirassiers in bicornes. Shown here a long time back, but they were in a class of their own.

Three Armies also showed Perry Carabiniers, totally transformed as Saxon Heavy cavalry.

My figures need much work still, I have to say. Tidying up and I do need to work on the Cross of St Louis on the helmet, the pistol cover, the shabraque (whether angled or vertical, I have gone with La Musee de l'Armee), the helmet and the sword guard. I need the flames to be inside the angles of the cross ends. Much sculpting still to do.


I must apologise to what is meant to be a wargaming forum. No way these chaps would feature. They were a disgrace, but hardly an inspiring leadership when Boney threatened.

Prince of Essling06 Dec 2018 12:10 p.m. PST

Excellent efforts – Elting's "Swords Around A throne" page 631 says:

"…….Officers and men were nobles all, of varying ages and physical condition but relied on to crush rebellion beneath disdainful heel in any future time of trouble. Every private of them ranked with a captain of the line, and their uniforms were expensively magnificent: A musketeer's helmet plume alone cost fifty francs. Richard de Soultrait, ex-captain of the Tirailleurs of the Young guard, noted his expenses on becoming a mousquetaire Gris: 4,000 francs towards the cost of his equipment, plus 1,000 francs for a horse, to be selected for him by a general. (After Waterloo, when the Royal guard was re-formed, Soultrait chose one of its infantry regiments.) Duty was light, consisting mostly of ceremonial occasions, with plentiful concurrent social activity, and "superb" banquets accompanied by much singing of songs in praise of their own prestige and valor."

dibble06 Dec 2018 5:45 p.m. PST

A couple of Lucien Rousselot pictures for you

Paul :)

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP06 Dec 2018 11:55 p.m. PST

Love the bottom one (the picture I mean but you do have to envy the seated Gendarme's devotion to duty. Very like Prince of Essling's "Swords" text…..I had completely overlooked Elting as having even mentioned them).


I see six different units in that picnic scene.

Prince of Essling07 Dec 2018 5:09 a.m. PST

Another couple for your collection
Maison militaire du roi. Mousquetaire noir en grand uniforme

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Mousquetaires noirs, en grand et petit uniforme

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Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP09 Dec 2018 6:32 a.m. PST

Two more pictures that I already had…

But not to anything like this resolution! I have no idea how you chaps find these images but they are far better quality than any similar that I have found.

Many thanks indeed.

dibble09 Dec 2018 2:23 p.m. PST

Here's one that I forgot to post Plus, a close-up of the musquetaire in the picnic scene that I posted above.

Here are some other pictures that may be of interest too.

Paul :)

Nine pound round09 Dec 2018 2:53 p.m. PST

If "Flashmanesque" can be a word, there's something Flashmanesque about that enlargement of the Mousquetaire with his glass raised. They may not have been much good for riding at a square fringed with bayonets, but it looks to me like he's ready for a determined assault on somebody's virtue.

Although, on further consideration, the fellow with his arm around the waitress' rump may be a bit more like the kind of behavior George MacDonald Fraser had in mind for old Flashy.

Either way, looks like a heck of a lot more fun than an ARTEP, a Divarty base piece shoot, a mass tac or a division review. Are all monarchical armies that entertaining? Inquiring minds want to know.

Prince of Essling10 Dec 2018 2:31 a.m. PST

Some Moltzheim & Titeux versions of other Maison Militaire du Roi troops (you may need to click on the Titeux images to blow them up to a good size):

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Prince of Essling10 Dec 2018 2:40 a.m. PST

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Prince of Essling10 Dec 2018 2:47 a.m. PST

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Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP10 Dec 2018 5:22 a.m. PST

These are simply amazing. All are far better resolution than my images but many of these I have never seen before.


I am indebted to you and can only say how much this is considerable effort is appreciated

Prince of Essling10 Dec 2018 3:04 p.m. PST

A few more by Titeux to round this off

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