"Mod Podge breaks the rules of priming and varnishing!" Topic

So I titled this describing Mod Pod as a hobby rules-breaking product, because for me it is.

It's not a new innovation to use Mod Podge as a mini. varnish by any means. I've seen TMP members post that they've used it as a mini. varnish.

I began to use it on plastic terrain board a few months ago but was hesitant to use it on minis. because of how thick it is. It's designed of course to be a puzzle/picture/craft project sealer and it does dry entirely transparent.

So I finally tried it on some metal dwarves that I painted a couple days ago. Once again, Mod Podge delivers! And with some amazing side benefits!

You seriously do not need to every bother with hobby varnishes in terms of being the primary protective layer for minis. Why? Because Mod Podge delivers a coating that is FAR, far thicker than even gloss brush-on varnish. Not even close. It gives the minis. a thick, slick, resistant surface. The matte however does have some sheen to it so you may need to put a single coat of matte varnish over it to dull it. But not a big deal.

If you haven't ever used Mod Podge, you need it. It will become your best hobby friend.

Another benefit of Mod Podge is that it breaks the rules of priming. What I mean is, whether you are painting plastics or metals a solid primer coat is NO LONGER AN ESSENTIAL. Yes, it's always helpful of course, but not the actual thing that truly secures your paint. If you use a weak primer, or a spray paint as a primer, or a good, true primer for your mini. Mod Podge secures it from above beyond what any varnish could.

I've got a friend who actually uses no primer on plastics and puts Mod Podge over the paint jobs. They wear like iron, tough as nails.

I know there's going to be some primer purists here on TMP who say I'm full of it (I won't mention any names), but I'm telling you that Mod Podge offers a freedom of protection where it's ok if the bond between the paint and primer underneath isn't perfect or even strong. Mod Podge traps the paint job in what amounts to a thin, plastic-like shroud. It can't move even if it wanted to lift off the primer.

My point to this is that Mod Podge also allows you to do things like for example if you miss a mold line (which I don't know how I manage it but I find a way) after you've started painting, you CAN go back and scrape the paint off right down to bare metal or plastic and forget primer for the touch up area, just touch up the areas with paint directly. Mod Podge will secure it. Or if an area where primer misses. You don't have to touch it up with primer. Just paint your colors and you're good to go.

Seriously. Now of course you do still generally want to give your models a primer coat, be it spray or brush on. It's certainly always better to have both a good bond underneath and a solid protection above. But with Mod Podge you don't have to worry about touch up areas if you don't use a "pure primer" on your models.

*By the way – I've noticed that even SELF-ETCHING primers can be scraped off metals without a great deal of force, it's not a super strong bond. I can scrape primers off plastics without much force, be they spray or brush-on. No matter what you do, the bond between primer and model surface is not going to be impervious to chipping and wearing. I've tried a lot of true primers as well, hobby and otherwise. None of them are that resistant to being rubbed off, certainly not totally resistant if a model is dropped.

If there's some secret miracle primer out there for models that only a few select insiders have access to, I'd love to know what that primer is. Because that's the way some TMPer's talk about it. Like NO hobby primers are true primers. Well then what on earth IS a true primer? People talk about it but never seem to say what that product actually is.

It's the REVERSE. What you put OVER your paint job is what is going to secure it when you being handling and gaming with it.

Now I know there will be responses saying that "if you prime properly you don't need any varnishes, it's the mark of a bad primer if you have to varnish at all."

Sorry, but that makes no sense. At all. I have yet to see any primer out there that can resist handling or dropping without paint coming off. A paint job with primer and no varnish, you better get ready to a lot of touching up if you game with them.

I'm sorry but that's rubbish. Pure rubbish. I proved it with my own hands-on experiment.

Pics. of metal dwarves. You can see that the Mod Podge dries perfectly clear and even used at full-strength thickness leaves no clumps or globs. Model detail and colors are perfectly crisp. As long as you're careful to use a very thin coat as you're painting it over the model and take care to not let it collect in recesses, they come out with a perfect protective coat.

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I've used Mod Podge for years, mainly on plastic 54mm figures, and can attest that it is amazing stuff. It provides an exceptionally tough coating and is flexible – a very useful feature when dealing with plastic.

One little caution: every once in a while it can gather in crevices or folds and dries a little cloudy; but with a little care this won't be a problem.

I say we get the Mod Podge guys and the Future guys into a cage, and see who comes out alive. Then we all use the product supported by the winners…

It has never occurred to me to use Mod Podge as a varnish. I'm going to keep that in mind going forward. Thanks for posting this.

One hesitation I have is susceptibility to water. I regularly use soaking to soften and remove PVA glues, and my understanding is that Mod Podge is fundamentally a PVA. Doesn't it run the risk of being clouded or destroyed by humidity or accidental soaking? A couple Mod Podge craft knick-knacks around my house are vaguely tacky, and I suspect it's the high humidity.

- Ix

If you water it down about halfway and drip it on your base flocking until the base is saturated, Mod Podge glues all the flocking material together into an almost indestructible mat. I haven't had flock come off a base since I started using this, unless I scraped it off with a craft knife.

That's brilliant! I'll try that. Thanks for the suggestion.

- Ix

I would be worried about fingerprints on your minis in humid conditions, anyone tested this?

I am not convinced to used Mod Podge on figures (too thick) but I wholeheartedly agree with the premise that a varnish is required to hold the paint to figure as form of protection. For that reason I have been using the Army Painter trio for many years (brushed on).

I know that many TMPers have strongly recommended cheaper substitutes (Future wood varnishes etc.) and I have experimented with most of them, however, I have found that they don't compare with A.P.

P.S. Baronvich; I applaud your continuing endeavors to experiment with a variety methods to enhance figures and terrain.

In past decades I paid thousands of dollars for a single item painted with enamels. I washed them, I waxed them, i allowed no one to touch the paint. Still they faded, they got scratches in the paint. On one, the paint even blistered (mostly on the hood [En. bonnet]).
Now, when I spend thousands on one painted object it better come with clear-coat to protect the paint. And keep your grubby finger prints off it!
I expect miniatures to be painted and they do need a top coat to protect that paint.

As regards the proposed cage match; I will point out that Future is easily striped when you change your mind.

WS,

But striping the future just wont make the miniature look better, unless you can point really small pinstripes and the figure is wearing a suit.

Oh. you meant stripping? Yeah, well, that would work, I guess…

Technically, Mod Podge (which I have used for years) is not a varnish. It's good old cow glue. Not made from cows.

I've not had Mod Podged figures have any problems with humidity. Once the coat drys, it is a solid (poly)vinyl covering. Ones that have seen the ravages of SE Asian summer weather (though not for years at a time) still look good, years later. Well … they look as good as I was able to paint them in the first place.

Now I know there will be responses saying that "if you prime properly you don't need any varnishes, it's the mark of a bad primer if you have to varnish at all."

I've never heard anyone say that but I'll agree, that statement doesn't make sense. But if someone insinuates that a good protective varnish precludes the need for a primer, then I'll also say that makes little sense.

The primer is a surface adherent so that the first coat of paint has a rough surface to cling to. The varnish is to protect the outer coats of paint from the external environment. That includes oily fingers.

There are those that don't prime and their figures look fine over the years. There are those that don't varnish their figures and they also look fine over the years. I'll say that speaks more of how well they handle and care for their figures than any benefit in skipping either process. I'd recommend both priming and varnishing your figures for the best protection.

@etotheipi I found that I had varnished some terrain pieces with Mod Podge. I then placed the terrain bits into their storage bin. Two pieces had contacted each other and the Mod Podge surface from both stuck to itself. I carefully pried the two pieces apart and the paint ripped off of the styrofoam base of one of the pieces. I had to touch the damaged piece up and sprayed it with a spray varnish that didn't melt the styrofoam. This worked well and produced a more matte look than the matte Mod Podge did.

This probably is not an issue with painted and varnished troops.

Two pieces had contacted each other and the Mod Podge surface from both stuck to itself.

Never had that problem, but I use spray varnish or sealant (Krylon H2O for foam pieces) on terrain bits. I'm too lazy to brush out large areas and worry I will miss a bit and have to go back to fix it later.

This worked well and produced a more matte look than the matte Mod Podge did.

Mod Podge has three finishes: matte, satin, and gloss. Not a lot of range. There are lots of other options next to them on the shelves of an art of craft supply store. Do you use a lot of different types of sealant for different effects? (Maybe that is a different thread…)

I have "workable fixative" that I use on paintings to seal, but still provide a surface upon which you can paint. It is completely invisible matte. It would also drive me to the poor house if I covered all my terrain with it.

Never had that problem,….

Me neither. I assume that since Mod Podge is a PVA glue based material that the areas in contact may glue themselves together. I sprayed them with a sealant to avoid this and place sheets of cooking paper between them for long term storage (just in case).

Mod Podge has three finishes: matte, satin, and gloss. Not a lot of range.

Yep, I used the matte…..which wasn't very matte. Again I hit it with a matte sealant.

Does spray lacquer have any ill effects on dried Mod Podge?

I had a spray lacquer matte unexpectedly cause crazing when sprayed over a non-lacquer gloss coat last year, so I am a bit wary of this kind of problem.

- Ix

Does spray lacquer have any ill effects on dried Mod Podge?

Shouldn't … barring the standard problems you have spray sealing stuff in a humid environment.

Does spray lacquer have any ill effects on dried Mod Podge?

I'll agree with etoithepi.

I found the Mod Podge dried with a bit too much sheen for my liking. I knocked that back with a matte spray. Just make sure the foam is totally covered with the Mod Podge.