"Add Firearms Board?" Topic

Guns are obviously a relevant topic when discussing warfare, particularly if that includes skirmish gaming, gangsters, Pulp, and other not-strictly-military forms of gaming.

However, some readers have told me that they are uncomfortable with firearms discussions on the other boards.

If we add a Firearms board, then discussion of specific guns can be limited to that board, and people who wish not to see such discussions can opt out of that board.

Your input?

I think that would be a lively board! Would it be limited to individual small arms, crew served weapons, or weapon systems like tanks and/or planes? Seems the challenge would be defining rules/parameters.

1. Are these people also made uncomfortable with the discussion of tanks, knives, swords, cars, poisons, sticks, stones and all of the other various implements of war?

2. If yes to #1, should we have a board for each or a single "implements of war" board?

3. The rules for any such boards are going to get very complicated very quickly, ie: Would a discussion of the range an American Civil War musket go on the ACW board, or the new Firearms board?

Might be only new board I might want.But if it's going to grind back to a multitude of sub boards why bother.

I think this board would be a mistake. It is just DH bait. Firearms are handled well enough in the boards we already have. Firearms should be discussed within the context of the historical period. This would go political in a heartbeat. Best to avoid it.

No.

No. If discussing firearms on a war gaming forum makes you uncomfortable, I would submit that you need another hobby.

No, and firearms have a direct bearing on what I do for a living.

It would be interesting if people objectively described and examined historical firearms, but I can predict -exactly- what the board would devolve into.
So I don't think it's a good idea.

No

No, and I don't want to see articles about firearms unless they are discussing the applications for game purposes. If I wanted to join a gun discussion group I wouldn't be here to do it. This board is titled The Miniatures Page, not the firearms page. I served 20 years in the military and own weapons of my own, but I agree with Joes Shop; no.

+1 Brad

It is also about context. Once you isolate it as its own topic then it loses its gaming or historical context. It then becomes political. On this board it will do that immediately. I don't want this to ruin TMP for a lot of people.

The bullying tactics are already starting. I am surprised the topic was even suggested. By the way I am not a gun hater.

If someone wants to discuss a firearm as it relates to a particular game or historical period, then there are already plenty of boards for that.

If someone wants to discuss their ability to own or use a firearm, then that is politics and belongs on the Blue Fez.

Are these people also made uncomfortable with the discussion of tanks, knives, swords, cars, poisons, sticks, stones and all of the other various implements of war?

I've been told they think it gives the hobby a bad look.

For example, a topic such as this one: TMP link

No

If people are upset by discussion of weapons I think they are in the wrong hobby.

Let's just skip firearms and go right to nuclear weapons. Because that's where this is headed.

No.

I have no problem in discussing the technical merits of weaponry in relation to wargaming, but as others have said that is specific to specific gaming boards already extant.

A fireams board would quickly degenerate and need a lot of moderation, whilst giving people a chance to have a pop at wargamers for being gun nuts (see what I did)

I would vote no to a new board.

However….

Discussing firearms is all about context.

Talking about the relative merits of a Brown Bess musket or something is to be expected on a site such as this, and I doubt if anyone here would have a problem with such a thread.

Talking about guns that, as civilians, you can buy and carry about with you in your everyday life is a different matter. This type of thread can make many non-Americans uncomfortable because it is so different to life in their part of the world.

Now, you could say "well those people should be more accepting of other cultures". Yes but, that works both ways doesn't it?

We can take the mick out of each other's cultures in lots of ways. Sports or food for example. Which is better, US football or rest-of-the-world football? What is the correct way to drink tea? All that kind of stuff. And it is mostly fun and good-natured banter.

The difference with guns, and why some people feel uncomfortable, is their lethal nature. Because they are designed to kill people. Discussions about owning firearms in modern civilian life are rarely light-hearted banter.

Bill has said many times that he wants TMP to be welcoming to people from all countries. So I would say continue to allow discussion of firearms, but guys, just be aware of others and tone it down a bit….

Since the response is overwhelmingly negative, I predict a Poll will come out ASAP.

No fire arms board , thank you Bill.

No

No

I would love to hear more about how the firearms actually perform in the field, and how gaming ules could reflect that.

But I suppose today some people would rather use completely imaginary stats, ranges and performance limits, just because they cannot fathom the idea of normal people being allowed to have those realistic discussions.

What's next for those people? Ban all discussions about real swords, and archery in the field of battle, etc?

The way I see it, if you don't like a board, don't click on the topics there. The rest of the forum can still continue to be your "safe zone". But let the other people exercise their choice to engage in the topics like grown ups.

This really reminds me of the people who like to eat meat but don't want to be reminded that it's meat.

link

It's so sad how sheltered some people have become, but it's even sadder how they try to force the rest of humanity to put on the same blinders and live in the same emotional bubbles and play their other "pretend games" in life.

link

Maybe instead of miniatures, they should stick to playing chess or something equally abstract.

Dan
PS. Perhaps it's time for an actual poll.

no

No. Like Rallynow and a lot of others have said, a dedicated board has the risk of becoming political. Weapons can be discussed in context, historically, on the relevant boards.

Although I'm not sure why anyone would be uncomfortable about discussing firearms on a site dedicated to wargaming. I'm quite comfortable with my own views on the subject of gun control, but admittedly the discussion itself and not the topic might get a trifle heated and uncomfortable!

+1 Cedric.

As the owner of some modern firearms – NO

As the owner of a couple of repro period firearms – these
can be adequately discussed, if necessary, on the
boards appropriate to their period.

Note that there are various games, that often use miniatures, that are very "crunchy" with respect to details (real or imagined), so discussions of firearms have a place on this board within the topic/genre that it might be posted in, but it should be in the context of games.

As the respondent on the example shown above by Bill, I should have added something directly related to gaming, but I had run out of time and didn't. To be fair, Tango should have framed the post in gaming terms as well.

I also vote "no" to a firearms board, but I would also like to add that I have just as little compassion for people that complain about such posts as they have for such posts.

Rob

+1 Rakkasan.

Bill, the example you posted is a press release about what is being marketed as a civilian CCW piece; it really has nothing to do with gaming. It is within your editorial discretion to nuke such a post.

The politics of firearms and gun ownership -- which is what this will devolve into -- needs to be in the blue fez or on a different site than TMP.

No.

Absolutely not.

Off topic. No.

For example, a topic such as this one:

Someone might be offenced by a Tango post? Perish the thought!

Though it was probably all about the escalating vitriol of the later posters.

As a gun owner and active shooter I do not think this good idea

I have to agree with Rakkasan also. E.g. the topic is talking about the M1 Garand in WWII. And like I have just recently done again. We went to the range and live fired my buddies M1, I/we may have some good insights.

Just like e.g. the M16, M60 MG, .50 cal., etc., if the topic is discussing those weapon and having actually used/fired those weapons. My comments may yield some information, for those who have not. I'd think …

I would love to hear more about how the firearms actually perform in the field, and how gaming rules could reflect that.

Very much so, I'm all about at least attempting to get a little more "realism" in gaming rules … E.g. A .30 cal. MG can't generally KO a tank … The rules should reflect that … I'd hope …

Discussing firearms is all about context.

Exactly … E.g. how a force uses(ed) certain weapons and tactics vs. the ideology, etc., behind why that force/army went to war, etc.

Bellesiles's infamous "study" still rears its ugly head, even here on TMP. Twice.
So no. I see no need for such a book.

No

Or like most things in life if you don't like it don't go to that board and read anything and or don't have it on your page. I strongly suggest we have a safe space board.

No, although, as Winston suggests, there will be a Poll in about four years and Yes will win. Somehow.

Discussion of weapons in the context of miniature gaming is, to my mind, fine.

This includes information drawn from real life use on ranges etc., provided it is in relation to how one portrays particular weapon systems in a game.

So, for me, such conversations should reside in the relevant period or game topic board. So no new specific board for firearms.

Regards

Edward

Agree with kustenjaeger.

We've already seen a good example in this thread as to why many here think a dedicated firearms board would be a bad idea.
Some people cannot resist the temptation to criticize the viewpoint of others (in this case, a viewpoint that hasn't even been expressed in this thread and I doubt even exists amongst war gamers!)

Objective discussion in the relevant thread.

BTW, in my many years of historical gaming I have never once met someone who just arbitrarily makes up stats for weapons because they shy away from talking about real guns.

Any topic relevant to firearms in gaming is best handled in the appropriate period board.

For discussions on firearms for their own sake, there are other forums specifically dedicated to that and serve the topics better anyway.

I still wince at the "discussion" about whether or not to allow personal firearms within a con. Frankly, I don't understand what the point of a "safe space" to discuss firearms topics means or brings to the table.

What point would it serve to compare here differences in a glock vs Walther rate of fire, relative accuracy or ease of maintenance that isn't available elsewhere.

No

Bill, the example you posted is a press release about what is being marketed as a civilian CCW piece; it really has nothing to do with gaming.

I've certainly seen modern and near-future or post-holocaust skirmish rulesets which have long, detailed lists of weapons and their gaming stats, and these were not limited to military weapons.

Nope

make it a "weapons" board

Exactly Bill – as log as gaming includes post-Apocalypse, Modern insurgency, zombie o hordes, etc. any new weapon is grist for the mill.

Not sure why a separate board would automatically degenerate into Fez land or become DH bait. After all, as a separate board it would be more readily avoidable.

Machts nicht.