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"What if Mark Antony had defeated Octavian and his forces " Topic

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Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP03 Oct 2018 2:52 p.m. PST

….at the Battle of Actium?.

Interesting… Cloapatra was a more clever ruler than Octavio…



John Leahy03 Oct 2018 3:31 p.m. PST

Octavian still had the edge. I think unless he (Octavian) was killed, Antony was in trouble and likely to lose.

Captainbrown04 Oct 2018 8:36 a.m. PST

We would all be speaking Egyptian.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP04 Oct 2018 11:05 a.m. PST



JimSelzer Supporting Member of TMP04 Oct 2018 11:48 a.m. PST

Viva Elizabeth Taylor

John Edmundson04 Oct 2018 1:16 p.m. PST

Did Cleopatra even speak Egyptian?

In all seriousness, I'm not sure it would have made a huge difference. Ptolemaic Egypt was already in serious straits by then and increasingly under the influence of Rome. I doubt a victory by the Egyptian fleet intervening in an inter-Roman conflict would have guaranteed Egyptian independence, although the thought of one of the Macedonian Successor states surviving much longer is interesting.


wmyers04 Oct 2018 2:35 p.m. PST

Given the Roman near-singlemindness of defeating opponents, regardless of how many times they had defeated Roman forces, I doubt Rome would have just left Egypt alone.

The language part is interesting, did the rulers, being Ptolomaic, speak Greek?

John Edmundson04 Oct 2018 8:02 p.m. PST

Yes, they did speak Greek.


darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP05 Oct 2018 11:53 a.m. PST

It's rare that a Roman defeat resulted in the Romans staying away.

Jews revolt in Jerusalem? Send a legion.
Jews defeat the legion? Send four legions.
Jews escape to a mountain fortress? Move one mountain against the other so we can get to them. Crazy.

Prince Lupus05 Oct 2018 1:01 p.m. PST

If Octavian had been killed Rome and therefore the western world would have been/would be greatly different.

ScottS05 Oct 2018 7:48 p.m. PST

Yes, Rome ground down and destroyed opponents.

But – if Antony had won, wouldn't he be able to declare himself to be the top dog of Rome? I can easily see him returning to Rome and taking control if he had won a victory at Actium.

After this, why destroy Egypt? Egypt would be the trusted ally that helped restore the rightful ruler after the treacherous usurper tried to seize power!

I doubt that Antony would have the political acumen to set himself up as emperor and rule as successfully as Augustus for an extended period of time. But I can certainly imagine Rome going in a different direction with him in charge and Octavian gone, never to become Augustus…

Marcus Brutus05 Oct 2018 7:55 p.m. PST

Koine Greek would have been the language of Cleopatra and her court although the broader population would have probably used Demotic Egyptian (although Greek would have spread quite far in use much like modern day English.)

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