"Size of Bavarian units in 1809 " Topic
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coolyork | 03 Sep 2018 10:19 p.m. PST |
Would Bavarian units be about the same size as French units in 1809 Campaign ? i.e. Inf. Regts , Dragoons etc .. Or bigger or smaller ? |
Artilleryman | 04 Sep 2018 1:32 a.m. PST |
'From 12 Aug 1808 each line infantry regiment had 2 grenadier companies and 6 fusilier companies. The light infantry battalions had four companies. The strength of a company was now fixed at 180 men. The lessons of the Plank report were taken into account by the Army Order of 9 Mar 1809, with an increase in the Schützen to a fifth of the company strength (i.e. 36 Schützen) and was achieved by a supplement of qualified men from the companies. Also, each battalion received another sub-lieutenant as a second Schützen officer and a bugler. Each company also received two Vice corporals for the assigned Schützen.' (Note that there were two battalions in a regiment.) So a line battalion would be about 650 all ranks. A bit smaller than a French battalion establishment but after casualties and campaign wastage, French battalions were about the same size. A cavalry regiment (both dragoons and chevaulegers) were six squadrons each of approx 130 all ranks. This gives a total of approx 800. In reality the average size on campaign was about 500 – 600 men so about the same as the equivalent French. This is all as far as I can make out without doing a Scot Bowden. Hope it helps. |
coolyork | 04 Sep 2018 6:15 a.m. PST |
Artilleryman , Thanks for the organization breakdown , this is exactly what I needed . Cheers! |
1809andallthat | 04 Sep 2018 6:24 a.m. PST |
Of the six squadrons in the cavalry regiments two were depot and didn't take the field as I understand. That would make the average size of a regiment (of 4 squadrons) in the field 400-500 and therefore slightly less than an average French squadron. Cheers |
Prince of Essling | 04 Sep 2018 9:54 a.m. PST |
Slight correction (taken from John Gill's "With Eagles to Glory" – each line infantry regiment had 2 battalions each with 5 companies (1 grenadier and 4 fusilier). 1 fusilier company from each battalion was detached to act as the regimental depot i.e. to perform admin and training functions – principally to accept new recruits and prepare them to join the battalions in the field. Each company had 180 men including 20 schutzen, giving the filed battalion an authorised strength of 720 bayonets plus officers, musicians etc. In March 1809 the number of schutzen was increased to 36 per company (only 7 of whom were armed with rifles). Similarly the light battalions consisted of 5 companies, one of which served as the depot. Again companies of 180 men including schutzen. The cavalry was organised into regiments of 6 squadrons , which were divided into 3 divisions of 2 squadrons each. 4 squadrons (2 divisions) deployed into the field while the other 2 performed depot and internal duties. Filed squadrons cpunted 125 sabres – while the depot was somewhat less. |
Prince of Essling | 05 Sep 2018 1:38 p.m. PST |
Bavarian OoB at 10 April 1809 (taken from John H Gill's "Thunder on the Danube – Volume 1" which foot notes explain comes from Charles Saski "Campagne de 1809 en allemagne et en Autriche" Volume 2 and Annex & John Gill's "With Eagles to Glory") 7th Corps: Marshal Lefebvre 1st Division: GL Crown Prince Ludwig staff company from 2nd infantry depot – 189 men staff cavalry from V/1st Chevaulegers – 1 squadron 137 men 1st Brigade: GM von Rechberg 1st Leib Infantry Regiment – 2 battalions 1,602 men 2nd Infantry Regt Kronprinz – 2 battalions 1,615 men 1st light infantry battalion Habermann – 1 battalion 813 men 2nd Brigade: GM Stengel 4th Infantry regiment – 2 battalions 1,645 men 8th infantry regiment Herzog Pius – 2 battalions 1,619 men Cavalry Brigade: GM von Zandt 1st Dragoon regiment – 2 squadrons 265 men 1st Chevaulegers regiment Kronprinz – 4 squadrons 529 men Artillery & train: Line (foot batteries) – Wagner & Hofstetten Light (mounted) battery – Regnier 2nd Division: GL von Wrede staff company from 3rd infantry depot – 184 men staff cavalry from V/2nd Chevaulegers – 1/2 squadron? 66 men 1st Brigade: GM von Minucci 3rd infantry regiment Prinz Karl – 2 battalions 1,594 men 13th infantry regiment – 2 battalions 1,592 men 6th light infantry battalion La Roche – 1 battalion 794 men 2nd Brigade: GM von Beckers 6th infantry regiment Herzog Wilhelm – 2 battalions 1,542 men 7th infantry regiment Lowenstein – 2 battalions 1,597 men Cavalry Brigade: GM von Preysing 2nd Chevaulegers regiment Konig- 4 squadrons 512 men 3rd Chevaulegers regiment Leiningen – 4 squadrons 500 men Artillery & train: Line (foot batteries) – Dorn & Berchem Light (mounted) battery – Caspers 3rd Division: GL von Deroy staff company from 13th infantry depot – 179 men staff cavalry from V/4th Chevaulegers – 1/2 squadron? 64 men 1st Brigade: GM von Vincenti 9th infantry regiment Ysenburg- 2 battalions 1,594 men 10th infantry regiment Junker – 2 battalions 1,549 men 5th light infantry battalion Butler – 1 battalion 810 men 2nd Brigade: GM von Siebein 5th infantry regiment Preysing- 2 battalions 1,540 men 14th infantry regiment – 2 battalions 1,610 men 7th light infantry battalion gunther – 1 battalion 718 men Cavalry Brigade: GM von Seydewitz 2nd Dragoons regiment Thurn und Taxis- 4 squadrons 543 men 4th Chevaulegers regiment Bubenhofen – 4 squadrons 527 men Artillery & train: Line (foot batteries) – Peters & Roy Light (mounted) battery – Gotthardt Corps Reserve Artillery: Major Goschl Reserve (12 pounder) batteries – von Dietrich, Dobl & Leiningen Light (mounted) battery – van Douwe Notes: Mounted artillery is used to translate the German 'reitende artillerie' for the Bavarian light artillery batteries whose crew members rode on the limber of their piece (the so called 'Wurst' wagons). Each line and light battery included 4 x 6 pounders and 2 x howitzers. Each reserve battery contained 4 x 12 pounders and 2 x howitzers. |
HappyHussar | 05 Sep 2018 5:29 p.m. PST |
Yes, more like 700+ per battalion sounds right. Then start deducting for march fatigue, losses/captured and illness. Their light battalions were raised from the Tyrol from what I remember and were prone to desert …. its why they usually come in at lower counts. |
Brownand | 06 Sep 2018 1:22 p.m. PST |
afaik the lights were not raised from the tyrol but existed already when the Tyrol becam Bavarian in 1806. You could be correct for one or two regiments but no more. |
Prince of Essling | 06 Sep 2018 2:34 p.m. PST |
From John H Gill's notes: The 7th light infantry was a relatively new unit, but, unlike its fellow light battalions, it could hardly be considered elite. Raised as the Tyrolian Jager battalion in 1807 and originally uniformed in traditional Tirolean colours (grey accented with dark green and light blue) in an effort to make service under the Bavarian flag more attractive to these recalcitrant mountaineers. The felt shako was also part of the recruitment scheme. The unit was thus provided with a certain degree of individuality. When the battalion was renamed as the 7th light infantry in 1808 the uniform was altered to resemble more closely that of its fellows; only the shako remained as a measure of distinctiveness. The battalion's performance reflected the attitude of most Tyrolians toward Bavarian rule: motivation was poor and desertion rife; its commander OTL Gunther, reported that it was composed of 'Tyrolians of the worst class' (report of 25 April). |
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