"Gaming Operation Sealion?" Topic

On a scale of 0 to 5, what is your level of interest in gaming this 'what-if' operation from WWII?

Maybe a 1

0

3 or a 4, but mainly as small unit actions of a company or less per side.

Was it anything like Operation Walrus?

Dan
PS. If you are looking for action between a few units on British soil, would The Eagle Has Landed (1976) be worth playing then, as an advance guard?
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My usual. You get all the figures needed and set up a scenario, and I'll play.
Me? I'm not starting any new projects.

I've games it three times … and the Germans lost every time thanks to the combined efforts of the Army, RAF, and Royal Navy.

Had a blast playing at bayou wars of a bolt action scenario based on Sea lion. Home guard units with crazy improvised weapons (armored lorries, Molotov cocktails, Spigot mortars!?!). Nuns as German 4th columners, uboat artillery support, fallscirmjaegers and kreigsmarine infantry. Scary Stuka that couldn't hit crap! Very colourful battle.

Operational level board game: 5

Miniatures:

CD – 3

Spearhead – 3

Bolt Action – 1 (Doesn't matter with skirmish games)

I would rate it at 3, and I am all in with Winston Smith on this

I'll give it a 3. Would rank it 3.5 if it was available. Interesting enough to play, but not interesting enough to build a force and put on a game.

I would play it at the operational level, and accept it as a historical "what if". I expect that if it were at all historical, it would be a highly unbalanced game -- but that's OK with me, I have played and enjoyed many unbalanced games.

I would play it at the skirmish level, but would see it more as "beer and pretzels" (with a nod to Buck) … light and amusing with almost no historical value. I would hope to see more than a few quirks and eccentricities to keep it interesting enough, as a get-a-feel-for-history approach would be less than riveting to me.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1

0

4 or 5.

I'll give it a 4. I am thinking about a what if scenario of Fallschirmjagers attacking a coastal battery on the cliffs of Dover. I've done the opposite, British Commandos attacking a german battery during the Operation Jubilee. Turnabout is fair play, as they say.

5.

Played the SPI boardgame many times.

5

5, if all the Germans die during it.

3+ Probably with CD or Battlefront WW-II

5.
This is something I've been planning in 20mm for a long time.

2

I'd go with Rallynow's ratings but an interesting comparison is with the Crete campaign if the RAF lose Air Superority.

In Crete the Stukas hit the RN hard but would they have done the same against RN battleships?

I also think that if the Germans had jumped the Channel in June 1940 and used their armour to roll over RAF airfields in the South East, as they did in France, then that would have given the Luftwaffe ground strips to work from in England and helped push the RAF back.

Just some ideas I have on Sealion.

B

1 …it's nonsense

Like some other responses, if you put on the game I'll play.

Had the question been about buying and building forces myself that would've been a "no".

0

Unless the Luftwaffe manage total air superiority over south east England (and that would involve bombing and knocking out the very airfields they would need to operate from once the invasion was in full swing, the Kriegsmarine could not have got the Wehrmacht across the Channel. Even if they had managed both of the above, the UK's armed forces would have mounted a maximum effort to stop further reinforcements and supplies reaching the invasion force. Thousands on both sides would have died, but the invasion would have failed.

It is what happens next that is the interesting question.

Certainly would be an interesting game, so I'd say 4 …

Surprised no-one has mentioned the Lardies "Operation Sealion" campaign. I've played all the scenarios (although never in order! And they all give fun, balanced games.

So Very interested in this level game, the strategic level, not really, because, to be honest it's never going to work.

I've already done it at an operational, grand tactical and tactical level.

Tactical is more interesting as operationally the Germans are doomed.

Never had much interest in it until I got the toofatlardies supplemnt for I Aint Been Shot Mum. The scenarios look interesting, varied and chaĺlenging. Quite fancy doing it in 10mm using Pendraken figs but need to reduce the lead moutain first! Call it a 4 but 2-3 for practical purposes

How would it differ (at the tactical end) from a France-40 game with Brits vs. Germans?

That was one of my favorite AH games as well !

A 4 for me.

As for the difference from a 1940 battle in France: home guard units and weak armor/artillery on both sides. Very much an infantry fray. German infantry would have to use different tactics we don't normally see.

5. It's one of my main periods. I have built a British 20mm collection for it and have played most of The IABSM scenarios. I must admit one of the big attractions is the unusual kit.

The British can have the same tanks as France 1940 plus Valentines, Vickers Mediums, Dutchmen & 6 tonners. I even have a Vickers MkIII (There were two still about supposedly). You can add in all sorts of obsolete armoured cars, Beaverettes, armoured lorries and gun trucks. Artillery varies from WWI 13pdrs and 18pdrs to 25pdrs plus French and American 75mms.

I have regular infantry, Australians, Navy & RAF personnel, Home Guard and Auxilliaries. All great fun :-)

4
It is of course historical nonsense. But that wouldn't stop me from gaming it; in fact, that is part of the charm.

3

Might be interesting if you assumed that rather than attack Norway they went for somewhere in the UK as a diversion just before hitting the low countries. That way they still have a (small) Navy and the German Para's haven't lost most of their transport aircraft on the Dutch attack.

Pretty unlikely to succeed but considering that the Ardennes attack was hardly a sure thing you could justify it as distracting the British being more important than overkill on the Dutch. Also the Norway attack made no sense unless there was to be a long war with Britain even if Britain had invaded first to get at the Swedes Iron Ore.

Perhaps on a foggy day with the Radar crews only looking to the skies, the Blucher steams into Whitby with a few destroyers and a couple of thousand Jaeger.

Having lived in Whitby I have to ask where do the Germans go after they have captured it? Lovely as it is, it is in the middle of nowhere. Just mask it off and let the Germans surrender or evacuate.

I keep meaning to convert the early DP9 walkers into the amphibious versions, complete with a floating trailer to haul a squad of infantry.

Merely suggested Whitby as somewhere that would not be heavily garrisoned. I would expect a few columns of German Armoured cars touring through Yorkshire just to cause chaos or perhaps grab another port or airfield before being stopped by the inevitable Yorkshire pensioners.

I would guess that useful ports like Hull or Newcastle would be too heavily defended for even a full strength German Navy to have much of a chance even if they had given the Royal Navy the slip temporarily.
I just like the idea of The British/French Norwegian intervention force arriving first but the Germans going to the UK for a spoiling attack because the Royal Navy is looking for them in Norway (much luck would be required).

Then as the Low countries attack starts, the BEF II are in Belgium with the main British reserve are dealing with Norwegian and Swedish police and suddenly there are German Armoured cars driving round the North of England. With Churchill having pushed for the Norwegian adventure he would be unlikely to become PM it would get quite interesting for scenarios. Especially as there would be political pressure on the BEF to return immediately which would probably result in the opposite effect and they might stay in France too long.

It is pretty hard to get any viable Sealion scenarios especially after most of the German Fleet was sunk in Norway so you have to assume that they did not go and the action is more of a big raid to sow confusion to the Allies.

Well, as long as they don't set fire to The Magpie Cafe …..

Of course one would have to accept certain preconditions to make it a viable scenario. Might make a very good "bathtubbed" campaign game. As to it couldnt happen Germany winning in Russia now seems like a pipe dream without some changes to history and yet we play campaign games on the Russian front all the time.

One can set it up so that say Dunkirk is a failure. Large scale RN forces committed in a desperate attempt to salvage the operation only to have numerous fleet units sunk. This would account for limited RN intervention making crossing possible. Throw in the RAF is fully committed to the Battle for France and there you have less aircraft available to counter the invasion.

Of course you can always go with the original German planning (yes, I know, WHICH plan) and heavily mine the flanks of the invasion force to allow for the crossing in the first place.

Can be some great scenarios generated even without a campaign game. The need for the Germans to quickly secure airfields and ports come to mind. Even linked scenarios on a larger scale where forces for further battles dependent on the outcome of the fight for an airfield and/or port.

As long as at least semi-historical forces it could be a lot of fun. Some of the same equipment some have for doing France 40 can be dual purposed here. As Dave points out chances for some "unusual" equipment as well.

Having lived in Whitby I have to ask where do the Germans go after they have captured it?

Maybe they just stay collecting whelks and paddling in the sea with rolled up trousers and knotted handkerchiefs on their heads! :-)