coopman | 07 Aug 2018 12:21 p.m. PST |
Setting would be current to 2022 or so. Mostly armed citizen militia involved. Could also be trained armed forces types vs. militia types. "Force on Force" or something else? I would like something less complex than FoF if possible. Thanks. |
Carlo Fantom | 07 Aug 2018 12:30 p.m. PST |
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M1Fanboy | 07 Aug 2018 1:49 p.m. PST |
Converted Living on the Frontline? |
Lion in the Stars | 07 Aug 2018 2:10 p.m. PST |
No End In Sight would probably be best. You could do interesting things with Ambush Alley/Force on Force, but that's really designed around more competent fighters than the typical US civilian. |
Stryderg | 07 Aug 2018 2:59 p.m. PST |
Skirmish, platoon sized forces or company level? |
coopman | 07 Aug 2018 3:21 p.m. PST |
platoon per side, maybe a little more. |
rvandusen | 07 Aug 2018 3:47 p.m. PST |
I would use Force on Force. To me, it seems a modern civil war would be politically nothing like the original ACW. It would most likely be an ideological split as opposed to regional succession. More like the SCW than the ACW. In that vein, I think the military and security forces would split, leftist and rightist militia would battle with the leftists largely ruling urban areas with the right wing holding the country side. There might be some secessionist attempts. For example, states in the Southwest and California may try to declare independence or even join Mexico. |
coopman | 07 Aug 2018 4:34 p.m. PST |
rvandusen, Thanks for your comments. That sounds reasonable. |
Tgunner | 07 Aug 2018 4:56 p.m. PST |
I would vote for Force on Force too. It's a solid set of mechanics that work well once you get use to them. Just keep troop density down to reasonable numbers (a platoon or so per side). I think a lot of the printed scenarios would work fine for a 2nd Civil War. Just substitute various US factions for wants in the scenario. I would argue that it wouldn't be a right v. left war. It is sounding more like authoritarians vs. liberals with the "liberals" being more of a coalition of central and right forces fighting an extreme left.
But back to gaming. I think the biggest single problem that you're going to have is finding civilian style fighters using western weapons. There are tons of them with Soviet weapons but nearly NOTHING with AR15s or any other western weapons. Let's look at 15mm because it's the scale I play. There are some, but 90% of them are just plain silly. For example…
There are some usable figures here, but others are just plain silly. However if your 2nd Civil is more of a goofy romp with backwoods hicks clashing with SJW's wearing.. err… pink hats then this might fit the bill!
With the right paint job you might have a few SJWs hiding in there… but they need guns. The rioters and gunmen from Rebel Minis could fit the bill for the "black block".
I guess you could mask the riots with green stuff to turn them into "black blockheads". Maybe use the contractors to be well armed MAGA red hat militias???
Back to a more serious game, these would be great but man… why all the Russian weapons??? I guess later in the war various factions hit the overwars arms dealers and get tons of AKs. But still, you should see way more domestic weapons. Rebel Minis has a few usable figures, but they are few and far in between. Probably better for a more lighthearted wargame. Things might be better in 20mm or 28mm. |
magical monstrous steve | 08 Aug 2018 3:01 a.m. PST |
Given how the conflict is actually being conducted in this country, the rules I would suggest to use are Monopoly. |
rvandusen | 08 Aug 2018 3:13 p.m. PST |
In 20mm Elhiem has a number of survivors and insurgents with M16A1-A2 link and also others with handguns, shotguns, hunting rifles, etc. In the case of Kalashnikov-style weapons, maybe the "antifa" types would smuggle arms and ammo from friendly powers or insurgent movements. Even purchasing them on the black market. |
shirleys painting | 08 Aug 2018 4:58 p.m. PST |
Remember, there are LOTS of vets who have combat experience, so many of those guys toting AR15's(and AK's. My husband fought in Kunar Prov. and only shoots AK74 pattern rifles) will be quite experienced. |
goragrad | 08 Aug 2018 6:16 p.m. PST |
Lots and lots of surplus 'neutered' semi-auto AKs in the US. And due to price there may be more stockpiled 7.62x39mm than any other caliber. Plus a significant number of semi-auto AKs (MAK-90, etc.) imported before the Ban in the 90s. Hunting rifles would probably be the biggest percentage, but AKs would certainly be a significant percentage. |
rvandusen | 08 Aug 2018 6:32 p.m. PST |
shirleys painting, I was thinking along those same lines. Many combat vets and even Cold War vets would be able to train civilians along with being the hardcore of any irregular force. In the case of US civilians being allegedly poor fighters, one must remember that in a guerrilla conflict only small numbers do the actual fighting. In Iraq the insurgents numbered somewhere between 20k-40k depending on what source you look at. Only around 2% of the population. Everyone else tried to keep out of the way, and many thousands secretly supported the insurgency. |
Tgunner | 09 Aug 2018 11:45 a.m. PST |
But the funny thing is that I've read that many Americans don't even know any veterans, let alone active duty personnel. link There are actually fewer veterans around now then in ages past and the professional military means that fewer people serve anyway with something like .04% of the population serving in the active duty military. Some states, as those charts show, have many more vets than others with Alaska having a pretty large vet population. While still others, like D.C. (yeah, not a state but still…) having very few, period. So some militias, like say from Virginia, would have a fair percentage of veterans to train the cherries while others, like say New York, would have very few indeed! |
Sherlockgeek | 01 Feb 2021 8:25 p.m. PST |
I would think Ak47 Republic would fit well for this. Sort of doing this in my own though plus 30 years after it started. I imagine Afghanistan, Liberia or Somalia with more space and more diverse forces. I would say most people don't know they know a vet. You find them in the weirdest places my favorite vet I have met was man with purple hair that was an ex-Ranger that worked in a vegetarian restaurant as a chief. |