ModelJShip | 05 Aug 2018 2:16 a.m. PST |
Hello, I have a doubt when putting the flags that represent Nelson's signal at the Battle of Trafalgar. They put all the flags at once? Or else, they would be put on and off as the fragments were read? Searching the internet I found images that represent the complete signal at the same time but I have doubts about it. Thanks in advance. link link |
keithbarker | 05 Aug 2018 5:51 a.m. PST |
Yes, all at once. Postcard of HMS Victory Showing Nelson's Signal
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dvyws9 | 05 Aug 2018 7:29 a.m. PST |
As I recall, Nelson actually wanted the signal to read "Nelson Confides…" Rather than "England expects…". The change was made because England and Expects were already in the code list, and did not require spelling out, which would have exceeded the available "slots" for the signal. |
ModelJShip | 05 Aug 2018 9:00 a.m. PST |
keithbarker thank you for confirming me. dvyws9 thanks for the historical contribution. Thank you mates! |
22ndFoot | 06 Aug 2018 9:52 a.m. PST |
I believe that the signal, using Popham's code, was made using a series of "lifts" probably twelve and that the whole signal was never flown all together at the same time in action. It was customary to make the signals from the mizzen although there was significance to various flags flown in different places. Images of Victory showing the whole signal are usually for commemorative purposes and could not possible have been read when she was under sail. Turner's famous picture of Trafalgar shows Victory flying "U-T-Y" – duty needed to be spelled out and was not substituted like confides/expects – from her mainmast.
She flew "Engage the Enemy More Closely" throughout the action. This was a standard British signal and comprised flags 1 and 6. |
ModelJShip | 06 Aug 2018 10:12 a.m. PST |
Thanks for the information but it's done :) Let's say it's a memorial ship. Even so, thank you for warning me. Regards, Julian |
ModelJShip | 06 Aug 2018 10:15 a.m. PST |
Still, it is logical to fly the flags behind the sails. In this way the enemy can not interpret the signals completely and the rest of the line can read it more or less easily. Yes, it is true that it is a cumbersome method in my opinion. The logical thing is to go up and down the flags from a single point of reading. |
Timmo uk | 07 Aug 2018 6:05 a.m. PST |
Then there's the question of the real colour of HMS Victory at Trafalgar… |
ModelJShip | 07 Aug 2018 9:24 a.m. PST |
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Timmo uk | 07 Aug 2018 10:42 a.m. PST |
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Blutarski | 07 Aug 2018 6:55 p.m. PST |
Just took a look into the book "Signal! – A History of Signalling in the Royal Navy" by Captain Barrie Kent. Quoting from page 7: "It is clear from other ships' logs that the first groups of the famous signal were hoisted at 1156, the whole signal taking no more than about four minutes to transmit, and this was followed immediately by the signal 'Prepare to anchor at the close of day' (Nos 8 and 63). The general signal for 'Engage the enemy more closely' (16) was made at 1220." Postscript: Signal No 16 – "Engage the enemy more closely" had been deleted from the fleet signal book at some point in the decades before the outbreak of WW1, much to the chagrin of Admiral Beatty at Dogger Bank. It resulted in the ill fated and unclear signal that induced Admiral Milne to lead his entire command in pursuit of the crippled Bluecher, which enabled Hipper and Scouting Group I to escape. B |