Barks1 | 18 Jul 2005 7:05 p.m. PST |
Can anyone refer me to web pictures or sites regarding Soviet field defences, eg minefields, wire, trenches etc.? I want to make some scenery and thought it would be good to have a degree of authenticity etc. TIA, Barks |
Mako13 | 18 Jul 2005 7:14 p.m. PST |
Don't have any links, but lots and lots of redundancy in depth. The Russians believed in really deep defensive positions, on the order of tens of miles, in some cases. |
zippyfusenet | 18 Jul 2005 7:18 p.m. PST |
The Sovs were also great believers in maskirovka – camouflage. You don't see a thing until they open up on you. |
Daryl G | 18 Jul 2005 7:26 p.m. PST |
Most defenses were similar no matter which nation set them up. |
Daryl G | 18 Jul 2005 7:47 p.m. PST |
Sorry Zipp.. but dont agree on that point.. One of the reasons the Soviets got overun so fast was because the fotification and bunkers were exposed thus allowing the enemy to simply bypass them. Gaming very early war soviet defenses is easy, most bunkers didnt have any. The Sopockinie fortifications were taken after 7hours in which most of that time engineers used 100's of kilos of explosivies to blast em out, The Germans stated if it hadnt been for the complete lack of defenses then the death toll might of been very high. |
GrossKaliefornja | 18 Jul 2005 8:27 p.m. PST |
You could look on the Musket Miniatures page, under 15mm WW2. They have some pics that could give you ideas |
Skeptic | 18 Jul 2005 9:05 p.m. PST |
Agreed, Zippyfusenet, at least to the extent that von Mellenthin was correct in describing the Soviets as "masters of camouflage" in his book _Panzer_Battles_. And he *was* there, after all. Skeptic
|
Procopius | 18 Jul 2005 11:37 p.m. PST |
Come on, has anyone got any links to pics. I'm interested in doing some resin pieces for this theatre. Pro
|
SgtPerry | 19 Jul 2005 12:59 a.m. PST |
|
Frontovik | 19 Jul 2005 2:27 a.m. PST |
Sorry no links but this book link has diagrams, complete with dimensions etc., of a range of field fortifications. The dislocation of the border defences after the annexations under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is fairly well attested. The fact that the Germans were able to get through those particular defences with realtive ease is not a guide to anything. The fact that they didn't analyse it properly is just evidence of how good they were at under-estimating their opponent ;o). |
Frontovik | 19 Jul 2005 3:08 a.m. PST |
I forgot about this site
serpentswall.com It's not very revealing but there are pictures of the pre-war defences of Kiev. |
Marc33594 | 19 Jul 2005 3:42 a.m. PST |
Not to be picky but camouflage is one very small part of maskirovka. From the Army's Leavenworth site: Maskirovka is a component of state-craft - a diverse spectrum of stratagems employed to distort the enemy's view of Soviet positions, designs, and missions and to alter the perception of their own side and their clients as well. Maskirovka, simply defined, was a set of processes employed during the Soviet era designed to mislead, confuse, and interfere with anyone accurately assessing its plans, objectives, strengths, and weaknesses. This Soviet concept included, but was not limited to, deception, disinformation, secrecy, and security. |
Skeptic | 19 Jul 2005 4:08 a.m. PST |
Arrgh!!! "This is not a complete translation of Part I.
Parts of the Instructions that deal with the heavy machinegun and mortar platoons and companies,
, are omitted, as are elements dealing with the submachine gun company, a separate assault unit, and the company in reconnaissance, which was a separate divisional reconnaissance element." |
Frontovik | 19 Jul 2005 4:21 a.m. PST |
Skeptic – sorry mate, it's still worth the asking price though :o). |
Skeptic | 19 Jul 2005 4:41 a.m. PST |
Yep, it does still seem to be worth buying – thanks! |
zippyfusenet | 19 Jul 2005 4:47 a.m. PST |
Good point about the broader meaning of maskirovka Marc. But it's going to be hard to represent strategic deception and disinformation in a resin model of a trench :-( |
Kelly Armstrong | 19 Jul 2005 6:07 a.m. PST |
|
Martin Rapier | 19 Jul 2005 6:07 a.m. PST |
" But it's going to be hard to represent strategic deception and disinformation in a resin model of a trench" Just give the Russians a 10:1 numerical superiority at the point of contact at all times, from 1944 onwards anyway;-) Martin |
Kelly Armstrong | 19 Jul 2005 6:20 a.m. PST |
Lone Sentry Website may have something appropriate if not exactly "soviet" lonesentry.com |
Skeptic | 19 Jul 2005 9:39 a.m. PST |
Thanks, Frontovik. That site is interesting and relatively informative. It's also fairly revealing, especially about Ukrainian pagan festivals, although I'm not so sure about the rapporteuse's dowry
;-) |