"Gaming Any Hidden Civilizations Under Glacial Ice?" Topic

1) How many fictional accounts (film or literature) with ancient ruins (human or non) buried under ice do you know of, that may have plots that would transfer well to gaming (for either an "RPG" between competing teams, or perhaps even a wargame between competing armies)?

2) Have you played any such scenarios yourself? If so, what tips can you offer? And what scale was your game?

3) As for terrain, how much of a role did the surface icy terrain play in the game? Or did most of the action take place below the ice?

Thanks

Dan
PS. By the way, did Lovecraft ever write about ancient temples and ruins covered by ice?

Try the Chaosium Antarktos Cycle book.

Then there is the obvious Alien vs Predator movie.

nearest to gaming anything like that is frost grave, and there are gaming mats for frsoty terrain e

Never even thought to set a scenario in the Artic/Antarctic.

By the way, did Lovecraft ever write about ancient temples and ruins covered by ice?

You mean besides "At the Mountains of Madness"?

From the Stargate TV series, wasn't there a 2nd gate found in the Antartic?

And, of course, that's where the nazi's went into hiding after WWII.

I think one of the Journey to the Center of the Earth iterations had a team trying to find the north pole and simply wrapped around to the underside of Earth's crust.

Atlantis is supposed to have been on a continent that is now covered in ice.

As for gaming, I would think movement would be slower. Depending on the day, visibility would be shorter. Characters that are wounded would have a much lower chance of survival.

@Roderick Robertson: "You mean besides ‘At the Mountains of Madness'?"

One of these I need to finally read his works.

@Stryderg: "As for gaming, I would think movement would be slower. Depending on the day, visibility would be shorter. Characters that are wounded would have a much lower chance of survival."

Just setting up a base camp seems like quite an ordeal:

link

It almost sounds as if one was setting up camp on a completely different planet, and not on our Earth.

Dan

Only thing I gamed that was similar – is using Time of the Great Freeze from Silverberg – of 2 civilizations coming out from below to see what was outside and running into one another along with nature

What about the 1977 movie Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger? where they travel to the land of Arimaspi which is hidden at the north pole.

As for books the best I have read are:
James Rollins Subterranean and Ice Hunt
Matthew Reilly Ice Station
There are a few more but I forget the titles.

There was a Disney film "At the Top of the World" ?? about dark ages Vikings in the modern world, or something like that.

Well, of course Black and Yellow Martians--but those are the wrong ice caps, I suppose. Marvel's Savage Land is accessible through the Antarctic, as I recall, but the land itself is an interior earth, more like Pellucidar.

Certainly read "At the Mountains of Madness," and consider Cthulhu-worshiping Inuit from "The Call of Cthulhu." But after that, you're largely down to Nazi bases with flying saucers. Once you go under the ice, it's really just another subterranean setting. Mind you I like subterranean settings, but if you want snow shoes and sled dogs, you need to stick near the surface

@Cacique Caribe

Yes, you should read some Lovecraft:

hplovecraft.com

A few facts to think about when setting a game under the ice:

-Antarctica has been covered by ice for about 40 million years.

Thus if there is a buried civilization, it's not human. It's vastly older than our species.

-The ice sheet may be 5km deep at the center of the continent, but shallower at the edges, and it is constantly moving.

Over millions of years, that ice should have ground buildings into powder. There are many mountain ranges under the ice, so it is possible that they contain underground facilities.

Hmm. Thought occurs that if you don't insist on polar, you might take a look at the Himalayas. I was never clear on how close the Plateau of Leng is to Shangri-la. For that matter, they may be one place. I never really believed the Coleman version.

In an emergency, you could have surviving Incas in the Andes. Depends on your available castings and buildings. I'm getting to the point at which I hate to do a whole project from scratch.

Once it melts, We will all have a look!

@Captain Beefheart: "Once it melts, We will all have a look!"

LOL. I can't wait! :)

@Oberlindes: "Over millions of years, that ice should have ground buildings into powder. There are many mountain ranges under the ice, so it is possible that they contain underground facilities."

Then the protruding mountains it is!

Dan

And if you are looking to have your setting in the Northern Hemisphere, this is what Greenland would look like without ice:

Dan
i.imgur.com/9j9XAwh.png

Frostgrave. Frostgrave. Did I mention Frostgrave? Also plenty of good caveman rules featuring icy settings.

Oh, also Lovecraft's "At The Mountains Of Madness." No one had mentioned it yet, but it is THE definitive book on exploring anciebt ruins under the ice.

Dan,

VIVA DOGGERLAND11111111111111111

There used to be a handy site with a comprehensive list of lost race fiction books. It gave a brief synopsis of each story. There a number either set in Antarctica or the Arctic Circle, if I recall correctly.

In Hive, Queen and Country there are some items of interest. I'd be giving out spoilers if I said anything more!

some hints here:
link

or

link

Also: The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym of Nantucket by Poe.

It looks just to 'n cold there … You guys go and then tell me about !

I forgot John Campbell's "Who Goes There?" which was made into two movies, both called "The Thing" and set in the Antarctic.

YouTube link

Khurasan makes some 15mm Arctic troops in his Planet 15 range. And The Thing.

I forgot John Campbell's "Who Goes There?" which was made into two movies, both called "The Thing" and set in the Antarctic.

The 1951 version is in the Arctic. I didn't recall that it's title is really The Thing from another World.

SPI published a game in the late 1970's called War in the Ice. It mostly involved a "future" war in Antarctica between the USA and the USSR(we're currently 20 years past when it was supposedly set). There were provisions for Subterrans (aliens) in deep sleep and buried cryo-chambers waking up when a unit got too close to their location. Never bought it or played it, but Boardgame Geek has info on it: link

I make it seven Doc Savage adventures on or under the ice.

link

Mostly early too. That's probably a plus.

@robert piepenbrink

Wikipedia proves itself yet again. It states that The Polar Treasure's year (presumably year of publication) is 1933. It goes on to say this about the story: "A map tattooed on the back of a blind violinist leads Doc's submarine Helldiver to the frozen north and a fabulous treasure. But Doc's crew is doubly-betrayed and stranded on the ice floes to die! Helldiver was inspired by the real-life Arctic submarine Nautilus."

According to Wikipedia, USS Nautilus, the first operational nuclear-powered submarine, was the first submarine to complete a submerged transit of the North Pole -- on 3 August 1958. link

I think that last sentence about The Polar Treasure must have it backwards: The Navy was obviously inspired by Doc Savage's adventure 25 years before, and decided to see if they could make it all the way through with a nuclear submarine.

I forgot about SPI's "War in the Ice" ! I wish I had bought that ! Only game I know that as the options for Nazi Rattes & Vrils !! And aliens !

You mean this one, right?

Dan
TMP link

There is also this one by Tiny Battle Publishing:
link

Chaz Engan's excellent RPG Campaign BEYOND THE MOUNTAINS OF MADNESS has thirty pages on what you might see in ruins under the ice. It is a 1930s sequel to Lovecraft's novella AT THE MOUNTAINS OF MADNESS in which the new Antarctic exploratory party is determined to discover what happened to that previous expedition.

link

If you can find a copy of the German language version, and can read German, there are an additional 70 pages of what you might discover in buildings and caverns under the ice.

Chick

Yeah, that's the one Dan. I really liked the SPI format, graphics, rules, etc., generally for most of their games.

Neuschwabenland looks real interesting too ! Nazis, Flying Saucers and Aliens on a tactical level … sounds like a winner !

Chick

Is this the one?

Dan
link

Long ago I had Ice War by Metagaming. It was another USA vs USSR in the Arctic Circle. I remember players could nuke sections of the map to create barriers to enemy movement.

link

I think I still have that game[in my archives, somewhere?!?]. But I like the newer full color counters ! The one US MBT looks like a Hammer's Slammers HBT !

Now, Dan, Chick gave you a link to the adventure book, while you've linked a book of short stories.

Not that that's not interesting… ;->=

Alas, Chick, in spite of attempts by several family members, German never stuck.

Doug

TheBeast (Doug)

LOL. Yes, I looked at Chick's link and, when I looked at the price, I thought there must have been some sort of mistake. :)

So I looked up more reasonable prices with that specific title and came across the other listing.

I can see now that it's not the same thing. Thanks.

Dan

Dan,

Does the map of Antarctica without ice take into account the land mass rising up after the ice is removed? I've read that the weight of the ice is pushing the land mass down into the ocean deeper than it would be, without the ice covering it. Just curious. Would love to see both Greenland, and Antarctica, free of ice. Neat maps. Cheers!

Good question. I would have to check. They could simply be an "X-ray" view of what current land there is beneath all the ice.

Plus there's the little matter of a higher sea level too, which could offset some of that ice-free rebound effect you speak of.

Dan

… when I looked at the price…

I figured it was just to show the cover; I've had CoC books in my possession, and, worse to worse, I've enough friends with weird libraries that SOMEONE may have a copy.

Ask around, you might get lucky. Not so sure about the German version…

Whoops, just noticed Chaosium has it in PDF for $20 USD; still a bit of a choke, but not as much as 10 to 12 times as much.

Whoops, part deux: RPGnow has a German PDF which I THINK translates to the same title, though listed from Pegasus Press…

Doug

link

Tempted to get both War Under The Ice & Neuschwabenland ! And Even the new version of ICE WARS !!!! I love this kind of stuff !!! Even if I hated operating in the snow & cold !!

Legion 4

About Neuschwabenland:

TMP link
TMP link
TMP link
TMP link

If I were to ever game anything at all even remotely related to Nazis, it would be about two or more competing corporate and/or military factions finding a long-abandoned Nazi secret base in the Antarctic*, perhaps adjacent to a volcano for power.

So, it would have some advanced human tech left behind, ancient artifacts and perhaps even a frozen "caveman", or an Alien body or two with some their Alien tech, but would otherwise be Nazi-free. You could even have a couple of xenomorph eggs or face huggers in cryo.

Or the Norwegians in The Thing could have found the base and retrieved the body there, from the abandoned secret base. :)

TMP link

But as for Nazis themselves, I think they are way overdone, even the zombie kind. Just my opinion, of course. They are not my preference.

Dan
* Or the abandoned subterranean base could be in Greenland, next to some unknown volcano with a still-hot magma chamber to power the place and the cryo tubes. :)