Paladin Wolf | 17 Jul 2018 9:11 a.m. PST |
Does anyone have any suggestions for how to model my a command m113 for a cavalry force? I was considering using the ACAV turret and gun shield but I couldn't find any evidence of their use in Germany in the 1980s. |
surdu2005 | 17 Jul 2018 9:24 a.m. PST |
The command vehicle is an M577. It looks like a taller M113. No turret. Only one machine gun — sometimes. |
haywire | 17 Jul 2018 9:55 a.m. PST |
M557.
There used to be one in a starter set but I cant find it. There is supposed to be a resin one in the Vietnam store but I cant find that one either. Here is the article for it link link |
Ferd45231 | 17 Jul 2018 10:44 a.m. PST |
I use to game VN in 20mm. I just scratch built mine from a 1/72nd kit and some thin plastic sheeting. I have 10 thumbs but it wasn't too hard to do. H |
surdu2005 | 17 Jul 2018 11:13 a.m. PST |
Sorry meant 557, not 577. |
FABET01 | 17 Jul 2018 12:16 p.m. PST |
surdu2005, your were correct. It's is M577. |
Paladin Wolf | 17 Jul 2018 2:02 p.m. PST |
So is the m113 scout the stripes book has as he command vehicles just standing in for the m577? |
Legion 4 | 17 Jul 2018 2:29 p.m. PST |
Yes, it's the M577 as pictured … It's the Cmd Track version of the M113. But* … So is the m113 scout the stripes book has as he command vehicles just standing in for the m577? Don't know about the book you mentioned. *But as a Mech Co Cdr, '87-'89, I & my XO had M113s as our Cmd Track and so did all my Plt Ldrs. The only difference is Cmd M113s generally only had more radios. Otherwise they were the same as the Sqd Tracks. In Mech and Tank Bns no one had M577s save of the Bn TOC had 2. So did the Bn S4, had 1, IIRC. You'd find the M577 at Bn & Bde TOCs, some Bn staff, etc. It's too big, i.e. a target, to be a "line" AFV like the 113 … And the 577 has more room for additional radios, maps, etc., … Also the Bn Sct Plt of both Mech and Tank Bns consisted of : 3 M113s 3 M901 ITVs Also the FDC for the Bn M106 4.2 in Mortar Plt was an M577. But the FDC for the Co. M125 81mm Mortar Plt was the again an M113. IIRC …
But by @ 84-85 the TO&E went from H to J Series and the Mech Co lost the "M125". The 81s were turned in and the M125 Tracks became some of the additional M113s for another Mech Co. added to the new H Series TO&E. The Mech Bn went from 3 Mech Cos. to 4. As well as some other reorganization … |
Paladin Wolf | 17 Jul 2018 3:28 p.m. PST |
Stripes is the American expansion book for Team Yankee. |
FABET01 | 17 Jul 2018 4:52 p.m. PST |
I don't know how Team Yankee is defining things, but the the 577 is typically not THE commanders vehicle. The 577 is valuable command/Control/communications hub that stays at TOC. In a typical mech company, it (used to << been a long time>>) it belonged to the XO. In a Battalion it belonged to the staff. In a Motar platoon it belonged to the FDC, not the Platoon leader. A CO wants to be mobile, so will usually have a M113, an MBT or even a Jeep. |
marcus arilius | 17 Jul 2018 6:21 p.m. PST |
yes M577's belong to the Battalion T.O.C. 1 ea for S1,2,3,4 thou the S1 and S4 track where hardly ever with the T.O.C. they are not for cruising around. |
Lion in the Stars | 17 Jul 2018 6:39 p.m. PST |
Yeah, the M577s are for fixed HQs or Arty FDCs. The Battalion CO has a Humvee or M113 of his own. |
Legion 4 | 18 Jul 2018 8:15 a.m. PST |
S1 and S4 track where hardly ever with the T.O.C. they are not for cruising around. Yes they were in the Field Trains … Known as the LOC – Log Ops Ctr. The S1 & S4 usually move around in M151s Jeeps and later HUMVEEs …
I don't know how Team Yankee is defining things, but the the 577 is typically not THE commanders vehicle. The 577 is valuable command/Control/communications hub that stays at TOC. In a typical mech company, it (used to << been a long time>>) it belonged to the XO. In a Battalion it belonged to the staff. In a Motar platoon it belonged to the FDC, not the Platoon leader. A CO wants to be mobile, so will usually have a M113, an MBT or even a Jeep. The Bn Cdr's and S3's 577s were usually joined together to make the Bn TOC. There was also 2 M113s in the Bn HQ known as the Jump TOC or TAC, that sometimes the XO, or Bn Cdr, etc., used to take command while the Bn TOC's 577 were moving to a new location, etc. Many times both the TOC's 2 M577s and 2 Jump TOC's M113 were co-located. I the same position. But again, the Bn Cdr, S3 and the XO moved around in M151s[later HUMVEEs] or even the XO used a CUCV. Being on both Mech Bn and Bde staffs, i.e. Bn S4, Bn & Bde BMO then finally Bn Asst S4. Also as a Mech Co Cdr frequently being cross-attached to a Tank Bn. I spent some time in both the TOCs & LOCs … as needed … Usually on the road in an M151, HUMVEE, etc. But in almost all cases, I usually moved around in an M151 or HUMVEE … As a BMO I had a CUCV, IIRC … The 577s only moved when they had to, e.g. as the Bn advanced, location was compromised, etc. IIRC the Bn Commo Plt/Ofr had an M557. And it was generally co-located or joined with the Bn Cdr's & S3's M577s, at the TOC. |
Murphy | 18 Jul 2018 11:06 a.m. PST |
The problem you had with 577's and TOC's was the "MORE" factor. Example: My ground squadron 2/3 ACR TOC set up. 1 S2, S3, Engineer and FSE track making an L shaped TOC Layout. 2: Now for each track Add 1 OE 254 Antenna…and about half a dozen other "antennas". 3: Now…add the extensions, (all connected) 4: Now….Cuss a lot as you add the massive camoflage net and supports and poles. 5: Now…add the security wire around the TOC…but leave spaces for entrance and exit…and leave spaces for cables for generators, (not the ones on the track but the external large ones towed on trailers)…. 6: Now…don't forget the parking areas for alllllllllll the Hummvees that will be around…. The Regimental Toc was even worse…as they had about 4-5 more tracks including a separate SCIF TOC with the MI folks nearby…. It got so big that the nickname for it was "The Taj Mahal"….
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Lion in the Stars | 18 Jul 2018 1:39 p.m. PST |
I still would get one or two of those M577 models, however. One would be the battalion aid station with big Red Crosses on it, the other would be the TOC. Now, for the company (on table force) commander, I usually use the farthest-out-the-hatch vehicle commander model. Company commander is almost standing on top of the vehicle, while platoon commanders are usually just heads.
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Raynman | 18 Jul 2018 9:41 p.m. PST |
I was on one field exercise where the Brigade TOC was all dug into a big sand pit. Really pretty, I believe there were 6 577's in the pit. Then it started raining! And raining! after a couple of days of that, the pit was full of water, 6 577's were completely submerged. Since it was sand, they couldn't get the tracks out of the pit. For the longest time we called the Brigade command, Submarine Command. Behind the General's back (he was the guy who didn't want to move the tracks out, thinking it was just sprinkling!!) we called him Admiral. It was quite the sight seeing tour for a week or so! |
javelin98 | 19 Jul 2018 8:39 p.m. PST |
Our 577s were never armed. |
Legion 4 | 20 Jul 2018 7:24 a.m. PST |
All ours had .50s … IIRC … |
mysteron | 12 Aug 2018 3:10 a.m. PST |
For any reason that you can't get the BF version,Butlers Printed Models produce one . |