Tgunner | 15 Jul 2018 1:30 p.m. PST |
I played AD&D a lot when I was a kid but I always knew that we were messing up some stuff, but how cares? It was fun. Now pushing 40 years later I found this site: link This site sort of shows how combat works by showing a classic party fighting (2nd level) a group of ogres. I'm still not QUITE sure how sure how it works but I do have a better idea from reading this.
Yeah, it was a proper mess at least with Surprise and Initiative but it was the around beginning of RPGs as we know them. It's pretty cool how much things have improved! PS: It's a pretty wicked DM who puts a party of 5 second level characters up against four ogres (that's 10 party levels vs. 16+4 hit dice of monsters!!!). No wonder it was almost a TPK. |
Tgunner | 15 Jul 2018 1:44 p.m. PST |
This page is a bit of a jem too. I think it does a better job explaining stuff and it shows what a mess AD&D was. link OD&D got this stuff right! |
Zephyr1 | 15 Jul 2018 2:47 p.m. PST |
OMG just judging by the hair style, she looks like she was copied off of an early 80's jazzercise video tape… ;-) |
Tgunner | 15 Jul 2018 2:53 p.m. PST |
Yup, those were the best! She even has the sweat band to prove it. |
Parzival | 15 Jul 2018 3:00 p.m. PST |
Lordy. Surprise is a separate matter, but I use the simple "everybody roll for initiative" approach. I favor the d10 for this, due to ease of math. Then I add the highest Dex bonus possible to 10 and count down. The players raise a hand if I get to their number; if they tie, the highest Dex goes first; if still tied, by combat class , so a monk beats a fighter beats a thief, etc.(though mostly I just wing this). The player then tells me their actions. Now, this obviously removes the whole "spell timing" issue and any notion of missiles or magic happening either before or after melee. What a character does happens when he does it, not sooner, not later. Is it over-simplified? Yes. Is it a heck of a lot easier, especially with the 12-14 year olds I regularly DM? HECK YES!!!! And that last one pretty much dictates why I use it. My goal is to make combat quick and simple, emphasizing the story element of the game. Yes, tactics come into play through descriptions of player's actions, and/or goals and objectives that might require special actions and considerations during a combat encounter (as "pull that lever across the room before they raise the portcullis"). And while all of that is why I use it now, in all honesty, I think that's basically what we did back when I was that 12-15 year old and we were playing AD&D 1e. We used six-sided dice for initiative and surprise, and never added any bonuses that I can recall, but after that it was "Your turn. What do you do?" And that was pretty much as detailed as we got. |
CeruLucifus | 15 Jul 2018 3:03 p.m. PST |
Wow, I didn't remember this stuff. I think we carried over the homebrew method we'd developed from OD&D, then when we switched to something else it was the D20 method, which must have been from AD&D2. |
Waco Joe | 15 Jul 2018 3:11 p.m. PST |
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FABET01 | 15 Jul 2018 4:02 p.m. PST |
Sorry, but it looks like a epic case of over thinking. |
Striker | 15 Jul 2018 6:37 p.m. PST |
We did what Parzival did. |
Tgunner | 15 Jul 2018 7:05 p.m. PST |
I think my DM from times long past just used the OD&D system with 1d6 for surprise (1-2 you're surprised, ditto for the bad guys and so on), and then 1d6 for initiative. We didn't fool with Weapon Speed or casting time in segments. I never bothered to read up on the rules myself until I was much older and I've never really understood them. I'm with FABET01- a serious case of overthinking something! |
USAFpilot | 15 Jul 2018 10:36 p.m. PST |
I didn't know this was an issue with AD&D. I think we played it mostly right. We left out weapons speed factor and rolled two dice for initiative. One die for the players and one for the monsters, highest die and everyone on that side goes first, we didn't break it down by individual. Lots of fun times but big combats would drag out to the wee hours of the morning. |
Fish | 16 Jul 2018 5:19 a.m. PST |
Hmmm, aint the illustration on the original post actually from 2nd Edition? Here is one more suited for the 1st edition. :)
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Tgunner | 16 Jul 2018 6:19 a.m. PST |
True, but it had an ogre! The link I posted included a extensive combat example that had a party of second level characters getting spanked by a small team of ogres. So I wanted something ogrish. |
Sgt Slag | 16 Jul 2018 1:43 p.m. PST |
The illustration is from the 1989 2e PHB. Never thought of her being an 80's exercise video rip-off… Until now. LOL!!! I was never fond of the 80's -- graduated HS in 1983. The hair and eyeglass styles for that decade are something I try to forget, for the most part. 1e AD&D was very difficult to learn. That was one of its challenges, and one of its rewards. You had to work at it, to learn it. I actually saw it inspire a few HS students to become more interested in math and history, because AD&D gave them a reason to learn those subjects, to improve their games. Those days are gone, but the rules live on. Starting up in a 1e game in August. Haven't played those rules since 1989. Should be fun to go back to a blast from the past. Cheers! |
Tgunner | 16 Jul 2018 1:47 p.m. PST |
I'm looking into playing some AD&D myself. My boys have taken an interest in 5ed, so I want to show them some old school D&D, PROPER D&D that is, before they lose interest. I'm getting both the PH and DMG, but wanted to read up on the system before they arrived. I remember what it headache it was trying to sort that stuff out when I was a kid. Not much has changed there it seems! I graduated in 1989 and I loved the girl's hair styles back in the 80's, mostly.
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45thdiv | 16 Jul 2018 4:10 p.m. PST |
Wow, definitely people with time on their hands. Way over thought. |
Fish | 18 Jul 2018 2:40 a.m. PST |
Ah, the ogre connection. Sure! Heh, indeed the 80's exercise video connection is heavily there and now that I'm reminded about it I can't get it out of my head. Because you're so physical… :p Started RPGing in '84 with AD&D and we didn't use any weapon lengths or speeds. Nor did we use casting times or surprise. Initiative was rolled during the first round and then just alternated. The actual rules are way more complicated and sometimes unnecessarily so. But today I'd probably use them mostly as written, because if you remove all the stuff we did, it really really changes the system. Ah, and the main thing during those days was that we had FUN! |
Chgowiz | 18 Jul 2018 7:21 a.m. PST |
I've been playing 1e since late 70s and haven't stopped. Current campaign is 9 years old. My combat system is not stock AD&D, but rather phased and based on a blogger named Philotomy who wrote this for OD&D. I use it in AD&D and it works just fine! Link to PDF of Philotomy's "musings" with the combat sequence: PDF link Link to blog post where I cover the sequence in some detail: link |
lugal hdan | 30 Jul 2018 3:03 p.m. PST |
In AD&D 1e, I'm pretty sure we used "each side rolls 1d6, winner goes first". In 2e though, we used "roll d10, add weapon speed or spell casting time, then DM counts up segments. Call out when he gets to your number". That was exceptionally slow, but also super tense, since you had to declare what you were doing (like casting fireball) BEFORE you rolled initiative. You'd be sitting there thinking, "Come on, no monsters before 8, no monsters before 8…" It also allowed stuff like: DM: The wizard starts gesticulating Party Member 1: Everyone attack him! Party Member 2: I'm using my dagger (fast weapon speed) DM: Ok, everyone roll for initiative… |