"Spain in Team Yankee - Challenge accepted" Topic

Hi,

At the open day Battlefront said that they has no plans to create army lists and models for Spain (and also Italy)

Well challenge accepted BF

I don't know much about the period but Team Yankee is my current obsession and I'm a huge fan of 'minor' nations
How hard can it be? (probably very)

After some brief research I've got the bare bones list of equipment and some organisation down

So I'm looking at
Tank company
With either AMX-30 or M47/M48 Pattons
some of the Pattons are up gunned to 105mm and a few extra gadgets

Tank company's had a HQ tank and 3 platoons of 4 tanks

Infantry Company
Mounted in M113s or BMR600 (a Spanish 6 wheeled APC)

I don't know the make up of an infantry company/platoon yet – any ideas anyone?

Marine Infantry Company
Mounted in LVTP-7

Again no idea on organisation

Also their is potential for a Recce company with VEC armoured cars and some tanks

Support wise their is

M106 and M125 mortar carriers
Milans mounted on M113s or BMR600
M109 SP Artillery
Roalnds mounted on an AMX-30
VEC-60 and VEC-90 armoured cars
Mirage ground attack aircraft

that's what I've got so far
the first thing I need to find out is the company and platoon organisation structure

Also what ratings to give the troops – how well motivated where they?

Model wise BF have the main French and American kit sorted
for the Infantry and home grown stuff (VEC, BMR 600) their is a company called Totentanz who did a kick-starter last year and whose models will hopefully be up for retail soon

So anyone no anything about the Spanish army in 1985

Cheers

Probably not much help, but some may find this army organization useful:

link

Don't forget the Legion.

In 1989 a Spanish mech infantry battalion had 51 M113A1s and 27 rifle squads (plus support wpns). I don't know if they had a triangular organization but, if so, I'm guessing that's 3 squads per Plt, 3 Plts per co, and 3 Cos per BN. That's nothing but a guess on my part.

Spain would be nice but I also would like to see the Italians in TY.

Totentanz Miniatures did a KS for TY Spain. They had not released them to the general public yet.

They have OOBs in their blog. For instance:

link

This has some lists from 1986 , that might be of use to you ?

link

Checkout fireandfury.com. Under support, BF Support, BF OOB and you will find a Cold War OOB for Spain.

I've been thinking of adding some Spanish forces. BattleFront states in the OOB that Spain was the only NATO country to cut forces during the 80's. They also state there were plans to ship Spanish units to the front through France but an exercise to see how feasible was never conducted.

I can attest to there Spanish miniatures, there really nice with plenty of detail. Currently working on some vec-25's an VEC-H90's. The legion infantry are killers.

cheers for the input so far guys, specific replies below
the thing I'm really struggling with is the low level infantry platoon organisation

what where they armed with, how many AT assists in the platoon. that kind of thing

for morale, stats etc. I think I'll just use the same as the French for now to make my life easier

also I'll use French things to fill in any gaps in the support (helicopters for example) like in the free nations book when Canada can get West germane MRLs and aircraft

@79thPA
yes I've already seen that thank you, useful for list of equipment even it is a couple of years ahead

@DaleWill
thanks, I have seen that. its useful but a bit high level. the other minor nations details are an interesting read as well

@28mm Fanatik
there's a chap on the TY face book group whose working on the Italians and also one whose working on the Finns

@ToysnSoldiers
cheers I had seen most of there OOBs but not that one, I sent Totentanz an email asking when the minis would be on general sale and it should be the next week or so hopefully (just in time for my birthday)

@Col Piron
sorry I just get a page cant be reached when I try that link

@Clifford
good to know, I'd probably get the basic infantry and some VECs (both kinds) as I have a soft spot for armoured cars

Must be yahoo playing up again ?

If you can get on this group , link , click on files , then scroll down and click on lists , the one you need is Europe 1986 v2014a.zip .

As for the italian (who are also in the pipeline from Totemtanz…):

link

@Col Piron
I requested access to the yahoo group the other day but I'm still waiting for approval

I've done some more digging myself and finally got the hang of reading the Fire and Fury ORBATS a first very rough draft coming shortly

Right First tentative stab
Just as a side not I plan on doing a BF only version which will just use stuff that Battlefront makes, in the hope they may actually give it some sort of blessing or official nod (yey pipe dreams)

Then there will be the all in version which will include other stuff

This is just the BF version

some terminology may be a bit off

So here goes
Companies
AMX-30 Company
M48A5E2 Patton Company
Mechanised Infantry Company
Armoured Cavalry Squadron

AMX-30 Tank Company (nice and easy)
HQ – 1x AMX-30
Core:
2x Platoons of 4 or 3 AMX-30
Optional Support:
1x Platoon of 3 or 4 AMX-30

M48A5E2 Tank Company – as AMX Tank company but with M48A5E2 tanks
may include the option to down grade all tanks to earlier 90mm version

Mechanised Infantry Company
HQ- Assault Rile Team in a M113
Core: 2 platoons of 6x Assault rifle/M65 teams in 3x M113 or 4x Assault Rifle/M65 teams in 2x M113
Optional Support:
1 more platoon as above

1 GPMG Platoon costing of 2/3/6 GPMGs and 1/2/3 M113s- apparently the Spanish liked to pool their GPMG with the Company commander and he could use them as he saw fit. I'll include the option to combat attaché up to 2 per Mech Infantry platoon

3x TOWS Mounted on M113s

3x 81mm Mortars mounted on M125 Mortar carriers

Armoured Cavalry Squadron
HQ- Assault Rile Team in a M113
Core: 2 platoons of 6x Assault rifle/M65 teams in 3x M113 or 4x Assault Rifle/M65 teams in 2x M113
Optional Support:
3x 120mm Mortars in M106 mortars carriers
2/4/6 x M41 Walker Bulldogs

Battalion level Support
3x M109 SP Howitzers
3x 120mm Mortars in M106 mortar carriers
1x Observer in M113
2/4x Mirage Fighter Bombers
2/4x BO-105P Helicopter with HOT missiles
2/4 Roland AA Missiles on AMX-30 chassis
4x 106mm Recoilless rifles mounted on Jeeps OR 4x TOW missiles mounted on M113s

so any thoughts?

the all in version will hopefully include VECs & BRMs amongst other things

I may also add in the a marine company

Andy

If I remember well , the tank company in the spanish army was compased of 3 5-tank platoons plus a command group of 2 tanks , and it was so until 1985/86 , when it size was reduced to a grand total of three plattons of 3 tanks each , and a coomand group of 1 or 2 tanks (I'm not sure of the actual size of the HQ element , but it could well be compased of 1 tank , giving it a tatal company straght of 10 tanks , usually AMX-30) .

The marine company of the TEAR (TErcio de ARmada , the brigade-size landing forcé of the spanish marines , now called BRIMAR, BRigada de Infantería de MARina, I still prefer the older name…) did maintain the 17-tank sized company… and still does

The M-48 used by the army were all armed with the 105mm gun by the early 1980s (and equipped with modern fire control and laser rangefinders , well before the AMX , since they were probably considered as the better tanks the army had , the AMX and M-47… not so much) , but those used by hthe marines were still armed with the 90mm gun when they were replaced by M-60s in the early-mid 1990s .

Thanks Natxoman
I've seen a few different sources for the Spanish tank platoon sizes

Team Yankee is set in 1985 so right around the reduction time
I might give the option for 3, 4 or 5 tanks in a platoon and 1 or 2 Tanks in the HQ and then players can make their own minds up

Andy

According to Janes Modern Armor, the US M47 medium tank not a main battle tank rated was fielded by these European countries, Italy, Greece, Portugal, Spain. Production complete by 1974.
The M48a3 main battle tank also had production completed by 1974. It was fielded by Spain, Turkey, Norway, and Greece.
The M60a1was fielded in Europe by Austria and Turkey.

@RudyNelson
Thanks, I'm actually looking at ordering Jane's Modern armour at some point this week

looking into a few other sources I've now removed the option to down grade the M48 to the 90mm for the main army
but I'll probably give it to the marines if I get that far

Hi Andy Tea
I followed this thread some time ago as I was also researching the Spanish army in circa 1985 for team Yankee, but I found information scarce, particularly at platoon level. I've just joined so this is the first time I can comment. Have you progressed any further with your orbat?
We play Team Yankee at our club in 10mm/12mm scale with quite a lot more figures available.
Thanks.

Hi mates, does anyone know where could be downloaded "Team Yankee-Italian Army"

Link is posted above but I couldnt download it from scribd

And for Spanish army, they were planed to reinforce Italian front. I doubt they would be used in Germany-they were to weak for Soviets