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"Strange but True: Jews Fought For Germany in WWII" Topic


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736 hits since 22 Jun 2018
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
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Tango0122 Jun 2018 9:24 p.m. PST

"In early 2018 Efraim Zuroff of the Simon Wiesenthal Center pressed Finnish President Sauli Niinistö to open an investigation concerning the role Finnish volunteers played in the Waffen-SS Wiking Division during World War II. The investigation will look at the records of soldiers and brigades to determine if any Finns participated in crimes against humanity.

Niinistö has agreed to the investigation, appointing groups to do the research in the National Archives of Finland, Russia, and Ukraine. The plan is to have the results ready by November when it will be decided if any more steps are required…."
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link


Amicalement
Armand

Griefbringer23 Jun 2018 6:56 a.m. PST

It seems that the author has pretty much no idea about what he is writing about…

Legion 423 Jun 2018 8:13 a.m. PST

Too many authors, journalists, media types, etc., seem to reflect that … it appears … evil grin

Tango0123 Jun 2018 11:10 a.m. PST

Glup!….

Amicalement
Armand

mjkerner Supporting Member of TMP23 Jun 2018 2:23 p.m. PST

Par for these type of Historical McNuggets—misleading misinformation.

Bunkermeister Supporting Member of TMP24 Jun 2018 11:09 p.m. PST

link

Actually many Jews fought in the German Armed Forces in WWII.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

deephorse25 Jun 2018 5:33 a.m. PST

It seems that the author has pretty much no idea about what he is writing about…

and you base this opinion on?

Par for these type of Historical McNuggets—misleading misinformation.

Which bit is misleading?

Griefbringer25 Jun 2018 6:52 a.m. PST

and you base this opinion on?

Being from Finland and being reasonably familiar with the history of Finland, including participation in WWII, presence of Jews in country, and involvement of Finnish volunteers in Waffen-SS. There is a whole lot of material written about these subjects in Finnish.

The linked article makes no sense to me. It seems to mix content from variety of sources (a lot of which is correct as such, but also with a bunch of material that seems rather ridiculous) on a number of remotely related topics with seemingly no understanding of the topic as a whole – so the end result is a rather confused lot.

Furthermore, the claim in the title itself ("Fought for Germany") is something that I doubt any Jewish veteran of the Finnish army would agree on – histories in the topic tend to make it pretty clear that they saw themselves fighting for Finland only (as most of the other Finnish veterans). Though as Bunkermeister points out, there were actual German Jews that (keeping their identity secret) ended up in the German military – but that is quite a different topic.

4th Cuirassier25 Jun 2018 8:45 a.m. PST

What goes around comes around, like the US Army now wearing German WW2 helmets…

wmyers28 Jun 2018 5:47 p.m. PST

Various groups like the Simon Wiesenthal centre have to continually come up with various imaginative ways in order to justify their continued existence and funding.

Mark 129 Jun 2018 5:46 p.m. PST

+1 to Greifbringer

The linked article … seems to mix content from variety of sources … on a number of remotely related topics with seemingly no understanding of the topic as a whole – so the end result is a rather confused lot.

Well said.

I can not understand, from the words that are in the article, what the author is trying to say.

The title of the article is:

Strange but True: Jews Fought For Germany in WWII

The introduction says:

Efraim Zuroff of the Simon Wiesenthal Center pressed Finnish President Sauli Niinistö to open an investigation concerning the role Finnish volunteers played in the Waffen-SS Wiking Division during World War II.

Ahem.

Does the author, anywhere in the whole article, tie these two issues together? Does he state, anywhere, with or without support, if there is even an accusation or suspicion that Jews fought in the SS Wiking Division?

Finnish Jews fought next to Germans in the attempt to save their country from invasion by the Soviets. … Many Finnish Jews were descended from Russian Jews that had lived in Finland before its independence from Russia following the Russian Revolution in 1917. These individuals now felt it was necessary to do their duty and prove they were true loyal Finns. … They didn't see themselves as allied with the Nazis but fighting for their country against Russia.

The dominant impression I get is that the author is suggesting there were Jews in the Finnish Army.

What's that got to do with SS Wiking?

Some fought together but the men who were placed in regiments with Germans were forced to keep their identities secret. A few German troops knew of their fellow soldiers' backgrounds but weren't particularly bothered by it and obeyed orders from Jewish officers without complaint.

This passage is quite confusing versus the other passages. It is left with almost no explanation. Is the author saying that Finnish Jews were fighting in the German Army? Or is the author saying that Finnish Army units were assigned to work with German units at even the Regimental level and below -- As in a Finnish Army battalion was assigned to work with the German Battalions in a German Army Regiment? And in these cases how/where did German Army soldiers come under the command of Finnish (Jewish) officers?

German patients were treated by Jewish doctors and nurses and made lasting friendships, as did many soldiers. Some Germans even accompanied Jewish soldiers to religious services in makeshift synagogues on the front lines. … Shopkeepers and citizens openly showed their contempt for German soldiers, something which would have resulted in their arrest and probable death in Poland or France.

HOW CAN AN AUTHOR WRITE LIKE THAT??? As Griefbringer says, it looks like passages from divergent sources pasted together with no thought about what they mean.

"We enjoyed bright, sunny and warm weather. Snow flurries delayed our flight."

Actually many Jews fought in the German Armed Forces in WWII.

This is not quite true. Depends on how you define Jew. There is evidence that some Jews assumed Aryan / Gentile identities to avoid Nazi persecution, and some of these did indeed wind up in the German military. But the numbers were pretty small.

The larger number were Mischlinge -- the half- and quarter-Jews. Very many did not consider themselves Jews. They were often raised Christian, and considered themselves Germans. It is not too surprising that they behaved in ways that other Germans behaved.

The most prominent example of a Mischling was Luftwaffe Field Marshall Erhard Milch. In the Jewish tradition one must have a Jewish mother to be a Jew. But German law said a Jewish father, or grandfather, was all that it took. Milch had a Jewish father.

Milch was not raised Jewish, he did not attend Jewish schools or religious or cultural events. He did not consider himself a Jew, and the Jewish community did not consider him as a Jew. But the Nuremburg Laws did. As the Nazi regime descended further into it's terrors, his position became dangerous. Eventually, to protect him and his siblings his mother swore out an affidavit that her own uncle had fathered all of her children. In Nazi Germany incest was more socially acceptable than Jewish blood.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

Legion 401 Jul 2018 6:22 a.m. PST

Watching a recent documentary on PBS. At least a few Jews who could hide their back grounds did. It was a matter of survival. And even were in the Hitler Youth, etc., …

IMO, it was a case to "live to fight another day" …

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