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"Australian Soldiers Have Been Photographed Flying..." Topic


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14 Jun 2018 12:59 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Removed from Ultramodern Warfare (2008-present) board
  • Crossposted to Modern Discussion (1946 to 2007) board


824 hits since 14 Jun 2018
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
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Tango0114 Jun 2018 11:59 a.m. PST

…. A Nazi Swastika Flag From Their Vehicle In Afghanistan.

"Australian soldiers have been photographed flying a Nazi swastika flag from their vehicle while on operations in Afghanistan.

The photo, obtained exclusively by the ABC, was taken in August 2007.

The photograph shows the large swastika emblem hoisted over an Australian military vehicle.

Two separate Defence sources have identified a particular soldier as the individual who took the flag to Afghanistan…."…."
Main page
link

Amicalement
Armand


Amicalement
Armand

foxweasel14 Jun 2018 12:30 p.m. PST

Do you think it might have been dealt with in the 11 years since it happened? Wrong board.

Cyrus the Great14 Jun 2018 2:38 p.m. PST

It's on the news cycle again.

foxweasel14 Jun 2018 2:45 p.m. PST

Must be a slow news day then, just lazy reporters trying to stir up old stuff. Or has there been recent developments.

Legion 414 Jun 2018 3:31 p.m. PST

Yeah, a bit dated … but I even recall seeing some US troops in Vietnam/SE Asia flying the Swastika as well. IIRC on an M113.

As I have said, and have been berated, etc., for it. Many believe regardless of the WWII German/Nazi dogma/ideology. From a pure military standpoint that they proved to be a ruthlessly effective and efficient combat force. And were feared in many cases at times. They controlled most of Western Europe for almost 3 years. And of course we could discuss the how, what, why, etc., about that fact. But no need to at this point, I'd think.

Regardless, the soldiers that were flying those "colors" were probably IMO, trying to strike some fear in their enemies, etc. I.e. a little PSYOPs, etc., at the tactical level, etc.

And whether some like it or not, they, as we know the Nazis believed/thought of many of their enemies as sub-humans," Untermench", insects, etc. Which is what many soldiers at war do at times as it is reported and appears. E.g. both the Allied Forces and IJFs in the PTO, the Germans vs. Russians, etc., etc.

Of course I don't support any form of Nazi ideology, dogma etc., etc. My Father fought them in France. And was WIA'd while doing it. But I can see how some in situations, e.g. A'stan, based on the horrors, etc., terrorists, AQ, the Taliban, ISIS, etc. had committed. That those terrorists should be "terminated with extreme prejudice" … As they are in turn "sub-humans, etc.


I'm not saying that is right, etc., but in the case of terrorists, ISIS, etc., I don't have any real major problem with it. IMO the sooner those types are gone, the better many in the world will be …


All that being said, I would Not let any troops under my command display the Swastika or any Nazi symbols, etc. For a number of obvious reasons, etc.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian14 Jun 2018 5:25 p.m. PST

So the soldiers have not actually been flying? evil grin

Lion in the Stars14 Jun 2018 5:32 p.m. PST

I'm pretty sure that if they had been Americans, they would have been given a flying lesson out the back of a C130 without a parachute…

Counter-insurgency 101, do not give the enemy any ammunition to use against you!

Super Mosca Inactive Member14 Jun 2018 6:42 p.m. PST

It's akin to flying an ISIS or Taliban flag.

I see the flying of a Nazi flag as an insult to Australian airmen, soldiers, sailors and nurses who put their bodies in, in the fight against the regime and it's allies.

Legion 415 Jun 2018 6:45 a.m. PST

So the soldiers have not actually been flying?
AFAIK … no … evil grin

I have 2 sets of wings I was awarded while in the US ARMY. And the closest I got to "flying" pre se was that 4 seconds right before my chute deployed. By it's static line.

After that … you were suspended below your chute … so it was more like "gliding" … wink


I see the flying of a Nazi flag as an insult to Australian airmen, soldiers, sailors and nurses who put their bodies in, in the fight against the regime and it's allies.
Yes, one can see that … but if this is true, the soldiers US, Aussie, etc. that may have been flying the Nazi flag probably didn't see it that way. But I was not there… so …

And as I said, any troops under my command would not be doing that sort of thing, regardless. But again … I was not there …

Uparmored16 Jun 2018 5:25 a.m. PST

In one of my Gulf War documentaries they interview a US Marine track commander who held some prisoners in his vehicle after a short engagement with the Iraqis in 1991.

An Iraqi prisoner asked the commander why the American had a photo of Field Marshal Rommel, a former enemy, up inside his vehicle.

The track commander said he told him "the reason you're sitting in my track right now as a prisoner is because we learn from our enemies."

Legion 416 Jun 2018 7:22 a.m. PST

I saw that too … What I've seen here and else where. Some intellectual, academic SJWs, PCers, etc. … don't get or want to get it …

WE must learn from history and in some cases from our enemies.

That USMC TC did Not support the Nazi dogma anymore than I did or do … But WE learned from our enemies. And in this situation, in the early days of WWII. The forces of Nazi Germany took most of the Euro Armies to "school". The hard way … And the learning curve was very steep at times …

Not saying that some of the Euro forces back then didn't understand mobile combined arms warfare, e.g. "Blitzkrieg" … But their forces couldn't execute it with the effectiveness and efficiency of the WWII Germans.

And in some cases "ruthlessly" effective and efficient. Which has nothing to do with Nazi dogma, etc., war crimes, etc., only from a "pure" military standpoint …

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian17 Jun 2018 2:01 p.m. PST

Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has issued a statement condemning soldiers who flew a Nazi swastika flag above a military vehicle while on duty in Afghanistan in 2007, Voice of America reported Saturday.

"Completely and utterly unacceptable," Turnbull said. "It was reported in 2007, that incident. The flag obviously was removed and the personnel involved were disciplined, but the incident it was wrong, it was absolutely wrong. Their commanders took action at the time."

link

Mobius17 Jun 2018 9:04 p.m. PST

Did they color their hair?

Legion 418 Jun 2018 5:59 a.m. PST

From Link Bill provided :

However, Ben Wadham, an associate professor in the School of Education at Flinders University in Adelaide and a former military investigator, believes the flag may signify something more sinister, VOA reported.
"Historically, arms corps in the Australian Defense Force and militaries across the globe are very conservative environments," he said.

What is "arms corps" ?

And so if you are in the Oz military, or any military Wadham is saying, and conservative you are somehow associated with the Nazis, or being a Neo-Nazi, etc. ?

So does he fall into the category of the "intellectual, academic SJW, PCer, etc.", that I mentioned ?

Am I missing something ?

Again as I said, any troops under my command would not be doing that sort of thing, regardless.

zoneofcontrol Inactive Member18 Jun 2018 6:48 a.m. PST

"However, Ben Wadham, an associate professor in the School of Education at Flinders University in Adelaide and a former military investigator, believes the flag may signify something more sinister, VOA reported.
"Historically, arms corps in the Australian Defense Force and militaries across the globe are very conservative environments," he said."

This statement was contained in Ben Wadham's grant application. He is currently compiling data on the effectiveness of incontinence undergarments on Flinders University staff.

Legion 418 Jun 2018 2:56 p.m. PST

Indeed … evil grin

RTJEBADIA19 Jun 2018 3:11 a.m. PST

Tho, when seeing a picture, there's almost always the possibility of a bad joke, there are Neo Nazis who join western militaries (and others), and their presence is a serious problem for ensuring discipline, unity, and ethical operations. I wouldn't trip over myself running to find defenses of flying the flag of Nazism or compare it to learning from Blitzkrieg (???).

Legion 419 Jun 2018 6:53 a.m. PST

There really is no defense for flying the Nazi flag when you really get down to it. As I said troops under my command would not be allowed to do anything like that.

Neo-Nazis in the [any] militaries ? Probably … but in my experience I have never run across it. But that does not mean it does not exist, AFAIK …

And as I said, in some cases the WWII Germans/Nazis were "ruthlessly" effective and efficient. Tactically, operationally and strategically. Which, IMO, has nothing to do with Nazi dogma, etc., war crimes, etc. Looking Only from a "pure" military standpoint …

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