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"How to Do Peninsular War?" Topic


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901 hits since 8 Jun 2018
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
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GlacierMI08 Jun 2018 8:18 a.m. PST

Do you build for the 1807 battles and add for the next 12 years. (which is what I'm thinking) of do you just choose when British versus French were an even match and build for that one battle?

Really want to get into the Peninsular War and there are so many attractive uniforms, prefer stovepipe shakos as opposed to Belgic(ish).

It just seems to open compared to say Russia 1812 where you build for Borodino and that's about it.

GlacierMI08 Jun 2018 8:19 a.m. PST

Do you build for the 1807 battles and add for the next 12 years. (which is what I'm thinking) of do you just choose when British versus French were an even match and build for that one battle?

Really want to get into the Peninsular War and there are so many attractive uniforms, prefer stovepipe shakos as opposed to Belgic(ish).

It just seems to open compared to say Russia 1812 where you build for Borodino and that's about it.

Personal logo miniMo Supporting Member of TMP08 Jun 2018 8:33 a.m. PST

I'm with the school that says paint for the core battle or uniform you want to play, and then use the figures for whatever else seems close enough.

I built my Brits for Waterloo, but will use them for Peninsular. Vice-versa works just as well.

I did build the entire Brunswick army in both 1809 and 1815 uniforms, and the reserve training battalions too!

Artilleryman08 Jun 2018 8:44 a.m. PST

I built my Peninsular British army based upon the orbats for Salamanca in 1812.It is a good balancing point as it is the battle that really made the French Realise that Wellington was quite good after all. You get to use the Stove pipe shako as desired so you can use the troops for earlier battles. I started with the 3rd Infantry Division which was Picton's command but led by Pakenham on the day.

138SquadronRAF Supporting Member of TMP08 Jun 2018 8:55 a.m. PST

I built something generic, British is stovepipes, Portuguese in tombstones, Spanish a mixture of bicorns and top hats. I use them for 1808-1814.

marshalGreg08 Jun 2018 9:14 a.m. PST

Like miniMO says!
I built for 1810 Peninsular (per Fuentes de Orno OOB ) and use for Waterloo.
For Waterloo campaign the Brits in stovepipe make the Hanoverians in belgic easier to find on the table.

Timmo uk08 Jun 2018 9:24 a.m. PST

I built generic later war so 1812 onwards as I prefer the later British cavalry uniforms and I had some 1812 French in the Bardin uniform. I'm into process of beginning to add other units to suit the earlier period.

It's probably easier to do generic with the French if you have them in coats (which they wore in preference as they were apparently cooler in Spain than the uniform jacket.)

If you want all the interesting French allies then you need to go for the earlier period. Fuentes was the last big action in which the French used converged grenadier battalions and there was a brigade of Spanish lancers there.

The East coast had Italians, Cuirassiers, The Black Hussars…

Personal logo miniMo Supporting Member of TMP08 Jun 2018 10:17 a.m. PST

The French Nassau allies are super useful as they become British allies with no time to change uniforms or repaint artillery for 1815!

MajorB08 Jun 2018 10:48 a.m. PST

What 138SquadronRAF said. Generic. Then use them for anything.

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP08 Jun 2018 11:54 a.m. PST

Best avoided altogether

Seriously, 138 Squadron RAF has it exactly right

Nine pound round08 Jun 2018 1:08 p.m. PST

Pick a high point for each army, and build for it. I am building my Brits to match the June 1813 post-Vitoria order of battle, so that you can basically deduct units or move them around to get any individual situation. For the French, aiming for 1811: lot of unit variety before the Guard and other organizations were withdrawn for the Russian war. It's worth plowing through the Nafziger or bats to trace unit groupings at the division level. The first two divisions of Ney's VI Corps from 1807-1808 were basically still intact within the Army of Portugal in 1812, but with the constant changes in leadership, it's easy to miss the fact that different men were leading the same 7-8 regiments.

Personal logo Mserafin Supporting Member of TMP08 Jun 2018 1:13 p.m. PST

I chose to do Hill's division from 1812 on.

This is Paul Hicks' fault. When I decided to get back into Napoleonics again (for about the fourth time) I asked my buddies which armies weren't covered by anyone's collection. "Portuguese," I was told. So I picked up some metal Victrix figures (now being produced by Brigade Games). The cacadores come with a 6' on the shake, making them perfect for the 6th Cacadores. Brown uniforms with yellow facings, so great. I looked up what regiments the 6th were brigaded with, and found they were the 6th and 18th regiments. These have scarlet facings and yellow piping, which is as colorful as Portuguese line get. So that's how I decided which Portuguese to do.

Of course Napoleonics encourage delusions of grandeur, so I decided to do some British to go with my Portuguese. The Portuguese brigade I did was attached to Hill's 2nd Division. That division had a nice mix of regiments and facing colors, so that settled that.

The Portuguese are done, about 1/2 the British infantry is done, so I'm starting to think about French. An obvious choice would be Girard's division at Arroyo dos Molinos, where they got beat up by Hill. But that's just four regiments of line and I like variety. So I'm thinking about Solignac's division the light regiment is the Irish Legion in green. And one of the line regiments is the 15th, which is documented to have worn the white uniform into Spain and made efforts to keep them as long as possible. 1812 is probably too late to put them in white, but that's not going to stop me.

And don't get me started on the cavalry…

TMPWargamerabbit08 Jun 2018 8:47 p.m. PST

Unit size and the miniature scale/size would be my first concern. If painting 15/18mm a bit easier (in general thought) than 25/28mm miniatures. A fast painter, a slower pace painter? Using a rules set with 24 figure units….. being a brigade, a battalion, or what? Or a different framework of units. If planning large Peninsular battles the total number of painted miniature determines when you can really start playing historical battle games.

Just to mention the real work… and welcome to the Peninsular. Basically a "Boney" free zone, except for his letters brought by ADC messengers.

davbenbak Supporting Member of TMP09 Jun 2018 6:26 a.m. PST

You did not mention what scale you are using. At smaller scales putting your light regiments in stove pipes and line units in shakos makes them easier to recognize. If using 1/72 plastics you're pretty much stuck with shakos since the Hat figures are so hard to come by.

Garde de Paris09 Jun 2018 7:54 a.m. PST

We enjoyed reading the Peninsular War years ago, and most of us just went with our own separate unit selections. We had French of the Revolution fighting with Waterloo era French against British with stovepipe shakos, painted back packs, varied overalls; Portuguese with Barretina or stovepipe; Spanish from white uniforms and bicorns to volunteer units, to the late-war British-furnished blue uniforms with tapes on the stovepipe shakos.

I am 81, and have never completed my "anthology" of the French army, from the first units to he voltigeurs, to Waterloo. I recently started using Victrix plastics, and have a battalion of the French 36eme de ligne with bicornes, an 8-company battalion including 4 gren and 4 volt Austerlitz era. They fought in Spain in the 2nd Corps under Soult.

The best figures of the day (1960's) were Stadden and Willy 30mm, with a VERY limited selection.

I planned a Dragoon "division" for the Peninsular War of 16 "squadrons" of 6 figures each. I completed the equivalent of 10 squadrons, and now see the marvelous Perry Dragoons in 18mm!

Using Willy 30mm Egyptian campaign figures (looking like any early-Peninsular French regiment), I have the elite company (3 figs) of the 1st Dragoons, made from Willy Horse Grenadiers of the Guard. A squadron of the 2nd dragoons is done from Willy Waterloo Cuirassiers (lots of carving there!)

Stadden cuirassiers converted to the Elite squadron of the 16th Dragoons, 1813 campaign, with Elite trumpeter with white bearskin, rose Bardin coat with sky blue facings; and also as 6 figures of the 29th Dragoons at Waterloo black belting.

I also acquired the Perry plastic French Dragoons, and have 8 figures of the 16th as above. Never in battle. No carbines, as they gave them away to equip the infantry.

My favorite is Stadden Empress Dragoons of the Guard, converted to the 19th Dragoons Jonquille facings, white epaulettes, black bearskin with white plumes for the Elites. Only 3 in process when we moved from Texas 3 years ago.

I would find it fun to include pre-voltigeur era French of a battalion that served later in Spain, since white coated troop with the "Tarleton"-like helmet, with a company of green-uniformed lights attached.

More in later post.

GdeP

Garde de Paris09 Jun 2018 8:20 a.m. PST

What I enjoy most about the British army in the Peninsula in particular, is the drummers with coats of the regimental colours – reversed from the private men; and the chance to paint he covers on the back packs in the regimental colour.

Then you have "painting landmines" like the 5th Northumberland Regiment of Foot. Facing Colour gosling green. I like the "legend" that the colour was actually a pale yellow; that the sergeants wore a waist sash of solid crimson, without a gosling green stripe; that at one point the drummer had white coats faced red, instead of Gosling green. I am doing my back packs in a mid-brown colour instead of Gosling green.

Dibble on this forum will be able to furnish you with specifics about British Regiments when you might need them! He has been a tremendous help to me!

GdeP

Garde de Paris09 Jun 2018 8:33 a.m. PST

In a kind of "Imaginations" move, I am considering adding a 3-figure rifle "platoon" to my 36-figure German Division "battalions" of the 4th Corps 2nd Nassau; 4th Baden; Hessen Darmstadt; and Frankfurt Battalion. That might give my British 8th (composite Division) a run for its money.

My 4th Division might have 4 French battalions; 4 German; and 4 Polish with the 12 rifles added.

My 8th British will have 11 "battalions" A Yellow brigade of 3 battalions; a green brigade of 3 battalions; and a black/white/Portuguese brigade, mostly as 40 of the 9th Foot by Victrix; 40 of the 28th Foot from Egypt (Willy Austrians with French style back packs captured at Alexandria); 40 more with yellow facings; then 40 of the 5th Northumberlands, gosling green Victrix; 40 of the 45th (Sherwood Foresters, Talavera era) also Victrix; and 40 of metal Willy 79th Cameron Highlanders for my green brigade. Finally, 40 of the 43rd Monmouthshire Lights – minor stadden conversions; 50th West Kent, 40 from Willy Egyptian campaign; 12-15 of the 95th Rifles by Stadden, a half battalion; and 30 of the 4th Cacadores by Victrix in metal, now Brigade Games.

GdeP

huevans01109 Jun 2018 9:55 a.m. PST

I have a generic British / Portuguese division and a generic French division, both in pre 1812 kit. I can live without getting exactly the correct regts for whatever battle. The regts were all pretty much interchangeable anyway. It's not tactically important that you have the 27eme Ligne, as opposed to the 50eme Ligne, etc.

Cavalry… I have enough Brit cavalry to do the later battles where the Allied horse was as large as the French cavalry formations. You can just deduct regts to make earlier British forces.

The uniforms are consistent throughout. So there's no anachronism issue. (Spanish started dressing in British made uniforms and changed, I guess. But that's murky anyway.)

GlacierMI09 Jun 2018 5:10 p.m. PST

Lovely reading your reminiscing of the 60's I'm afraid I started in 1978 with Heritage Napoleonettes and moved up to Minifig 15s. Now i swear strictly by AB 18s.

Thanks for all of your wise counsel, I believe I will start out with William Bereford's 1st Brigade/3rd Division and throw in Craufurds 1st Flank Brigade all under Sir John Moore at Corunna and advance from there.

Should be a wonderful project!

Garde de Paris10 Jun 2018 8:21 a.m. PST

If I ever decide to continue with these forces0to build 12 Battalions for the I corps; II corps and IV Corps, they will not only have French units from the 1790's through 1815, but probably every well-done 28mm manufacture!

1. Stadden 30's now have 9L; 24; 96; 16L; 45; 27L; 63; 2L; 15; 33 (not in Spain, but I love the white uniform with "violette"; 17L; 88; 26; 3rd Swiss; Paris Guard; 4th Baden + gunners; Hessen D + gunners; 4th Polish; 9th Polish.
2. Willy 30's (for cavalry)
3. Victrix in bicorns done as 36eme de ligne.
4. Victrix pre-1812 in shakos 27eme de ligne; 65eme; 95eme
5. Perry metals for the 54eme de ligne sapeur with colpak; French dragoons per-1812
6. the new Russian marvels for the 8eme de ligne; and the 94eme de ligne.
7. I may replace my Baden converts with new specifically-Baden manufacture.
8. I will buy 2nd Nassaus, instead of converting
9. I will by Front Rank to make the Frankfurt battalion from Young Guard figures -voltigeurs for the grenadier and light companies; and tirailleurs for the center companies.
10. I will do a Dutch battalion from new manufacture – Perrys?
11. I will do 7th Polish and perhaps another by ?Muravski?

12. How to do the Legion du Midi?
13. How to do a battalion of sailors to represent the 3 battalions that served with the I corp at Cadiz, and in the retreat? 1 actual battalion looked like classic French Light infantry, the other two with tail-less sailor double-breasted jackets with shoulder boards.

This will be a truly bizarre, mis-matched, but accurate unit uniform collection!

GdeP

Garde de Paris10 Jun 2018 8:31 a.m. PST

If I ever decide to continue with these forces, they will not only have French units from the 1790's through 1815, but…

1. Stadden 30's – now have 9L; 24; 96; 16L; 45; 27L; 63; 2L; 15; 33 (not in Spain, but I love the white uniform with "violette"; 17L; 88; 26; 3rd Swiss; Paris Guard; 4th Baden + gunners; Hessen D + gunners; 4th Polish;
2. Willy 30's (for cavalry)
3. Victrix in bicorns – done as 36eme de ligne.
4. Victrix pre-1812 in shakos – 27eme de ligne; 65eme; 95eme
5. Perry metals for the 54eme de ligne – sapeur with colpak; French dragoons per-1812
6. the new Russian marvels for the 8eme de ligne; and the 94eme de ligne
7. I may replace my Baden converts with new manufacture
8. I will buy 2nd Nassaus, instead of converting
9. I will by Front Rank to make the Frankfurt battalion from Young Guard figures -voltigeurs for the grenadier and light companies; and tirailleurs for the center companies.

This will be a truly bizarre collection!

Jabba Miles12 Jun 2018 2:25 a.m. PST

Built my British force based on one battle OOB, Talavera 1809, 3rd and 4th Divisions, a Light Dragoon brigade and half a Heavy Dragoon brigade. Use for this battle and many others. Have added a Portuguese independent brigade for a bit of variation for other games.

Tony.

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