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"How many guns?" Topic

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©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Last Hussar01 Jun 2018 9:56 a.m. PST

So this is a sample of the or at I hold for the Grande Armed for June 1809
lst Division: S.M. Erbprinz von Bayern, Générallieutenant Brigade: Généralmajor Bechberg, Stengle, Vierreg
lst Bavarian Line Regiment (2)(l,307)
2nd Bavarian Line Regiment (2)(l,2l0)
lst Bavarian Light Battalion (l)(664)
4th Bavarian Line Regiment (2)(l,2l2)
8th Bavarian Line Regiment (2)(l,l65)
3rd Bavarian Light Battalion (l)(242)
lst Bavarian Dragoon Regiment (4)(244)
lst Bavarian Chevauleger Regiment (4)(399)
4th Bavarian Chevauleger Regiment (4)(37l)
Artillery (429)

So how many guns does that represent? I don't think its the quoted 15 per gun. I'm wondering if it includes the train, so 25-30 per gun, about 16 pieces. Would that be right?

Artilleryman01 Jun 2018 10:26 a.m. PST

Going by the ORBAT of Wrede's 2nd Division there would be one battery (6 guns) per brigade. The given orbat is two brigades of infantry and one of cavalry. This gives three batteries or 18 guns. This also fits in with the 429 for the gunners present.

Brechtel19801 Jun 2018 10:38 a.m. PST

The regulation number for a gun crew might not be the one used in the field. It also depends on the caliber of the piece(s). I would use eight gun crew on average.

Bavarian artillery companies had a strength of 100 all ranks. They manned six pieces per battery. The above division had four artillery companies/batteries: two foot batteries manning four 6-pounders and two howitzers; one horse company/battery manning four 6-pounders and two howitzers, and one reserve 12-pounder company/battery manning four 12-pounders and two howitzers, for a total of 24 field pieces.

See With Eagles to Glory by Jack Gill, 68-69. These numbers are for April 1809 when the war began. The Division commander was Crown Prince Ludwig of Bavaria, the corps commander was French Marshal Lefebvre.

Last Hussar01 Jun 2018 10:45 a.m. PST

I'm converting it from Nafzinger to FoG:N. Its a great list for that, and exactly when I'm looking at doing, though obviously won't match the normal constraints.the rules state 12-19 guns is a small unit, 21-30 is large.

A different corps/division

III CORPS Commander: Marechal Davout
1st division
l3th Légère (3)(l,966)
l7th Line (3)(2,092)
30th Line (3)(2,053)
62nd Line (3)(2,095)
Artillery: (44l)

Brechtel19801 Jun 2018 11:46 a.m. PST

For Marshal Davout's III Corps for 1809 I would highly recommend Commandant Saski's Campagne de 1809 en Allemagne et en Autriche, Volume I. It contains detailed information on the artillery of III Corps at the beginning of the campaign. Volumes II and III are on Google Books, but I haven't found Volume I there yet. I have Volume I in hard copy.

Prince of Essling01 Jun 2018 12:11 p.m. PST

Saski's Campagne de 1809 en Allemagne et en Autriche
Volume 1 PDF link
Volume 2 PDF link
Volume 3 PDF link

JimSelzer Supporting Member of TMP01 Jun 2018 2:07 p.m. PST

my groups goes with an artillery ratio of 1 battery for every 10 battalions or so as base numbers assuming 24 figure battalion so roughly 1 battery per 240-250 figures we normally play with 1200-1500 figures per side

khanscom01 Jun 2018 5:54 p.m. PST

For the Bavarian 1st Division, "Armies on the Danube- 1809" by Bowden and Tarbox show 2 foot batteries, each with 4x 6-pdr. guns and 2x 5p.7li. (about 5.5") howitzers, and 1x horse battery armed as the foot batteries. Artillerymen numbered 418, based on returns of 12 April, 1809.

Personal logo 4th Cuirassier Supporting Member of TMP02 Jun 2018 5:54 a.m. PST

IIRC the historical approach was to count guns per thousand men, with something between 2.0 and 3.5 being the norm. It does seem to have varied widely. In Spain there weren't the horses for that many guns and in general the guns per thousand men ratio would be higher for the main body where there would typically also be a reserve artillery formation present that detachments didn't have.

Le Breton Inactive Member02 Jun 2018 8:29 a.m. PST

The norm for Russians was 2 guns per battalion (6-pounders or 1/4-pud unicorns for heavy infantry), plus (additionally) 1 piece of reserve artillery (12-pounders and 1/2-pud unicorns). Battalions had about 600 combattants at full strength. So, that would be 3.33 pieces per thousand men without the reserve artillery and 5 pieces per thousand counting the heavy pieces.
Jägers were supposed to have 1 or 2 3-pounder unicorns per battalion ca. 1805-1807 …. but no guns were alloted to them thereafter.
By 1812, there were additional reserve artillery companies, above the prior standard. The standard allotmment had been formed into a standing artillery brigade per infantry division (of 8 heavy infantry battalions).

Last Hussar02 Jun 2018 9:02 a.m. PST

I'm going with 1 gun per 25 men quoted in the artillery strength. It will make most units quoted as Small.

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