"ECW Pike & Shotte unit question" Topic

I'm new to ECW and am looking at how rules represent combat.

Did the elements of a typical ECW pike and shot units act indepenantly or a cohensive whole. So, would the shot wings act on their own or flee on their own.

I see that in Warlords Pike & Shotte rules the three elements are treated as independent units where as the likes of Baroque and For King & Parliament treat the unit as a single entity.

Which is more correct?

Some friends attended a Sealed Knot event at the weekend in Bristol and they said the re-enactors units acted indepedently by weapon type rather than as a unit.

Help, please – I'm a little confused!

I'm new to ECW and am looking at how rules represent combat.

Did the elements of a typical ECW pike and shot units act indepenantly or a cohensive whole. So, would the shot wings act on their own or flee on their own.

I see that in Warlords Pike & Shotte rules the three elements are treated as independent units where as the likes of Baroque and For King & Parliament treat the unit as a single entity.

Which is more correct?

Some friends attended a Sealed Knot event at the weekend in Bristol and they said the re-enactors units acted indepedently by weapon type rather than as a unit.

Help, please – I'm a little confused!

I have all three sets of rules and like them all, however Baroque and For King & Parliament have it right when they treat the three elements as one unit. Plus it just works far better as a game especially for anything other than a skirmish.

A few years ago I wrote some amendments for Pike & Shotte so that you can use combined units instead of the separate elements in the games. They are available on my blog as a free PDF as well as new cavalry & character rules which are also on there. Here is a link: link

I have all three sets and like all of them.

I choose to use the larger single bases as they appeal to me more.

I think the probably answer is that they did both, depending on the tactical situation. However, I still think there were probably times when the unit advanced with the pike screened by the shot in front – this is certainly shown in diagrams of the Swedish order, Whether or not that was used in the ECW is open to conjecture.

The most obvious example of this is when shot is drawn-off to act as commanded musketeers. Most rules seem to like that done before the battle starts but I think there is probably evidence of it being done during battles as well.

Both Battles of Newbury are interesting to study as they are interesting tactically with regards to how the different troop types were used to best effect given the terrain and defences.

The Sealed Knot have a great deal to be commended for, unfortunately the way they battle is probably their least historically accurate element. Practicalities and health and safety seriously impact how they represent regiments of foot fighting.
I thought Warlord had addressed the issue in the ECW supplement?

The Pike & Shot acted together.
Both Warhammer ECW and Pike & Shotte treat them as three separate units, which complicates matters and is not very historical.
Pretty much every other set of rules has them all acting as one unit.

Thanks for your thoughts everyone.

I'm giving For King & Parliament a go with a mate tonight.

Reanactment groups like the SK are not trying to kill each other so keep the regiments structure is not so inportent, also the ECW armies would have up to half the army would be mounted,this would keep you on your toes, no reanactor has ever had to deal with that much cavalry.

Like DBR and FoG R

Good luck with the game, Nick- mail me if you get stuck!

Thanks Simon – looking forward to it.

Aside from the lists in the rule book – are there any other lists available. I couldn't see any in your store (free down loads for TtS for those who haven't see!).

Hi Nick,

Not yet. The ECW is an odd war for army lists; one might require 25-30 different lists to cover the short period of the wars across all the fronts. Many lists would be good for only a single battle. Consequently, I'm prioritising the writing of scenarios based around the battles themselves- I hope to publish the second scenario (after Montgomery in the rulebook) in a few weeks time, and thereafter bring out around one a month. There is a surprising amount of work in a scenario! :-)

Best, Simon

We played the FKaP scenario tonight. First game with the rules but very intuaitive so very easy to pick up.

We had a real blast! I had the Royalists and started badly losing about a third of my cavalry. However. the Roundheads pursued off the table leaving my infantry to flank the Parliamentarian infantry with fire and then charge in. The Roundhead line collapsed – victory to the Royalists!

Really enjoyed the game and the rules – will now have to buy and pint an army (we tried the rules using card unit bases only.

I look forward to the additional scenarios.

Super! I saw something similar in one of the Partizan games; the Royalists routed 3/4 of the Parliamentatian cavalry and chased them off the table. The surviving Parliamentary horse rallied, turned onto the Royalist infantry flank and decided the game. :-)