"Italian Wars Flags" Topic

I was looking at some of the new figures that Steel Fist Miniatures have painted and posted on their Facebook Page (which I highly recommend having a look at).

One figure, the flag carrier, caught my attention. The figure is running and carrying a large flag in one hand, with the flag pole only extending perhaps 18 inches below the bottom of the flag. Having carried some large cloth flags in the past, it seemed to me that it wouldn't be possible to carry a flag with one hand with such a short flag pole, yet alone run with it blowing in the wind. However, many manufacturers do make this pose for the Italian Wars flag carriers.

I posted a comment on the Facebook page saying that I was not convinced that this would be possible. Simon, the owner, very Kindly responded and initially pointed out that many periodic wood cuttings show just this type of short flag pole being carried one handed in this way. It is difficult to argue with period evidence. He suggested at first that there may be some sort of weight at the bottom of the pole to keep things more balanced.

Later he suggested that the flags may have been a light silk, and posted a video of modern day Italian flag waving using short flag poles and silk flags. As the flags themselves were very light, not like the heavy Napoleonic flags that I am used to, the people waving the flags seemed to be having no problem.

It makes a lot of sense to me that the Italian Wars flags would be a light silk, as I cannot see heavy cloth flags being waved in this way. Does anyone on this site have any information on what the flags were made of.
Looking at a lot of flag figures that people have painted, I see people trying to represent a heavy cloth, rather than a shiny silk, is this realistic?

The Osprey book on the Spanish Tercios discusses this issue. The author is a re-enactor. He doubts the short pole is feasible. He suggests a longer pole would have been more common in the field. He sites some pictorial evidence. However, I am not entirely convinced. The vast majority of detailed images I have seen show a short pole in use.

Still done today.

Short staffs are authentic.

YouTube link

That was the video the Simon posted showing the modern day Italian flag twirling with silk flags. I really doubt that they could twirl heavy cloth flags like that.

Just as well that the flags would be more likely silk rather than heavy cloth.
Silk was being used for flags in Europe for a long time before the renaissance. Painted designs tended to be lighter than embroidered.

With regard to the look of silk, it isn't necessarily very shiny.

Hi Martyn
Just checked in 'Die Burgunderbeute und Werks Burgundischer Hofkunst' – which is catalogue of Burgundian Wars expo from many years ago. This included the fragments of the Burgundian-swiss flags (caotures in 1477). They are all painted silk, so little weight really.
Hope that helps – it looks pretty certain to me that 16th century ones would also be silk and so its one-handed waving it is.
Cheers
Simon.

Being Flag bearer was the job for THE veteran soldier in a Fähnlein, so we can assume Flag Bearers were strong and – if they survived – pretty skilled. "Fahnenschwingen" is still kind of a sport in Switzerland and some German areas.

So: Follow the contemporary depictions. Short poles it is for the Landsknechts.