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"WHAT IF Aliens Demanded Us To Be A Unified Earth Govt?" Topic


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Action Log

01 May 2018 5:48 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Removed from 15mm Sci-Fi board


1,129 hits since 1 May 2018
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP01 May 2018 2:13 p.m. PST

[NOTE: I know I've read a short story or novel about this somewhere, or perhaps it was a tv show. If you recognize that plot, lease let me know if there was ever such a demand made and what it really consisted of.]

WHAT IF … an extraterrestrial civilization claiming to come from a unified home world also claimed that full contact and exchange of technologies with us would be possible only if our planet was under a single world government (regardless what type)?

1) How quickly would interested parties (private, governmental, etc) jump at the chance to bring the rest of the planet under that single yoke, by all means necessary, claiming that doing so would bring an end to all war and a period of unprecedented prosperity to all? And, ironically, how quickly would this plunge the Earth into a war of world domination by our own species?

2) Which countries are more likely to want to remain independents? Developed nations? Third world? Mix?

3) Which pro-countries would have a divided population with a sizable resistance challenge ahead? Developed nations? Third world? Mix?

4) What specific scenarios would be easier to game? Urban? Rural? Mixed?

5) What figures would you use for those scenarios?

6) Which rules?

7) Any other details?

Dan
TMP link
PS. Let's see if we can keep the discussion in the context of gaming potential and application. Thanks.

Garand01 May 2018 2:53 p.m. PST

Depending on how liberally you interpret "Full World Government" I can't see that happening. Some countries will claim "fake news!" others will resent the infringement on their sovereignty, etc. That being said, the UN is basically the world government as it is now, with very, very limited federal powers. Since there are no other worlds or civilizations known, it cannot exercize interstellar diplomacy or enter into trade agreements. So very liberally interpreted, already here…

Damon.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP01 May 2018 2:59 p.m. PST

I don't know about anyone else, but I absolutely loathe all those science fiction stories and movies from the 50s that had the flying saucers come in to save us from ourselves.
Yes. That includes Klaatu and his friend. I almost got kicked out of a science fiction club because of that. And they had elected me president the year before!
That puts the lie to the claim that they're the most tolerant people around.

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP01 May 2018 3:01 p.m. PST

@ Winston

I think the 50s Sci Fi flicks were more about the Cold War than they were about science fiction. I don't like them because they're cheesy & preachy.

Pat Robertson wrote: "I have zero tolerance for morons who try to scare people". As these movies were about scaring their audiences, maybe it was you who should have been intolerant!

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Zephyr101 May 2018 3:15 p.m. PST

Well, the first thing that would happen, after they've been told to, is to see if the ET's really could physically pee up a rope. wink

Then we'd reject their offer, and engage in theft of their tech (aided by the smuggling industry that would spring up), and in a generation or two be at parity with them.

They really don't know humans too well… ;-)

28mm Fanatik01 May 2018 3:26 p.m. PST

The world will unite together as a one-world government to a degree never believed possible, but only long enough to knock (or die trying to knock) those preachy aliens off their moral high horses for deigning to tell us how to live our lives before going back to our pre-alien invasion status quo.

I see my attempt at irony in another post has spawned a new discussion.

Well meaning enlightened aliens bringing peace on earth is one the most popular tropes in sci-fi, from TDTESS to Carl Sagan (whom I referenced elsewhere) to the Twilight Zone.

Stryderg01 May 2018 3:30 p.m. PST

The dictatorships would split: those that thought they could profit, would join the one world gov; those that thought it was BS would decry the imperialist tendencies of the rest of the world.

The prosperous nations would either have divided populaces, or they would join the one world gov because the population is too busy living their lives to notice.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP01 May 2018 3:33 p.m. PST

Winston

There were plenty of those shows* in the 90s too, and more so in just these last couple of decades.

Dan
* Example, the new Outer Limits (1995-2000), and similar shows and films. Trek TNG, and the other franchise films and shows talked to death the topic of how backwards were those planets that did not have a single world government.

mjkerner Supporting Member of TMP01 May 2018 3:46 p.m. PST

I, for one, would welcome our new Extraterrestrial Overlords, and do everything in my power (and sniveling ways) to help them succeed!

Legion 401 May 2018 3:56 p.m. PST

I don't know which has a lower probability of occurring …
Aliens landing or the nations, races, religions, etc. of Earth being "unified" … ?

Hell … my money is on the aliens landing on the WH lawn … after that it is anyone's guess …

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP01 May 2018 4:02 p.m. PST

Legion 4

Ha! If it landed in DC, that alone may be reason for some countries to take offense, and for their diplomats to show up at the WH together with American "voluntareers" carrying picket signs (and perhaps some torches). Lol. Yeah, that would really show the damn Aliens how unified we are. :)

That's still a fun and easy terrain (diorama) project, though probably more for very small scale.

Dan
PS. The saucer might even crash because of all the politicians giving different conflicting locations for where to land, like the UN (NYC), Congress, WH, etc. All in the hope they are the very first politicians/representatives filmed greeting the aliens. :)

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ScoutJock01 May 2018 4:51 p.m. PST

They'd have to kill us all first, well most of us.

"We had to destroy the planet to save it."

cosmicbank01 May 2018 4:52 p.m. PST

form a one world govenment then United Earth would defeat the aliens then we can go back to killing each other.

Parzival01 May 2018 5:07 p.m. PST

Easy. We tell them that actually we are an autonomous collective with each nation taking turns to act as a quasi-executive branch to direct primary policy for around two centuries, with preset political parties forming factionalized dissent according to certain regional policies and cultures, with such dissent at times expressed in elaborate sporting events we term "wars," that inevitably result in greater scientific and social progress, here let us explain it all to you via a 392 point PowerPoint presentation, while representatives of ours tear apart… I mean, tour, your space vessel. Just have a seat here. Hold on a second while we apply these straps to hold you in place while the presentation occurs. It's for your safety, of course.

You see, it all comes down to what is meant by "government."
evil grin

skippy0001 Supporting Member of TMP01 May 2018 5:11 p.m. PST

1. The UN Security Council could be the core global government.
2.None of them-they'd be out of a socio-tech level jump and would be occupied for their own good.
3.I figure only religious groups would foment unrest. Or bypassed corporations.
4. Don't see any scenario's/campaigns being difficult. Tech disparity can be difficult to balance.
5.For Alien I would use Battletech plastic 'mechs, remove the legs (gravitics motive power), put them on a stand and use modern 1/285th vehicles/ infantry. Depends how I define the Aliens.
6. Rules….StarGrunt? Variant FFT?…have to think on that.
7.For Aliens I would use Drow/40KDark Eldar only paint them as bronze-skinned, copper haired and golden eyes. Very snooty, condescending but honorable and they take the Uplift Civilisation Philosophy seriously. Until their Grav Warbot squishes John Wick's dog….

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP01 May 2018 5:22 p.m. PST

@Parzival, LOL. You are the new god of newspeak!!!

@Skippy, excellent replies. You are really thinking like a gamer. :)

Dan

War Monkey01 May 2018 7:05 p.m. PST

Hay, I've seen this before in one of those 50's,60's shows year some years back, the aliens showed up saying that we haven't advanced enough and that they would have to destroy us, and the folks at the UN said wait we can do better "Just give us 72 hours!" The aliens did and in 72 hours the whole world was working as one government and world peace was abound, then the aliens said no you got all WRONG!

"Your are supposed to be wagering war among yourself that's what we design you all to do, turns out our expectations of this experiment was all wrong and now we have to destroy the entire plant"

ZULUPAUL Supporting Member of TMP01 May 2018 7:47 p.m. PST

We would tell the aliens to Bleeped text off.

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP01 May 2018 10:09 p.m. PST

Hay, I've seen this before in one of those 50's,60's shows year some years back, the aliens showed up saying that we haven't advanced enough and that they would have to destroy us, and the folks at the UN said wait we can do better "Just give us 72 hours!" The aliens did and in 72 hours the whole world was working as one government and world peace was abound, then the aliens said no you got all WRONG!

"Your are supposed to be wagering war among yourself that's what we design you all to do, turns out our expectations of this experiment was all wrong and now we have to destroy the entire plant"

WM, you forgot the sequel where a plucky Will Smith leads the world into an unlikely but warm & tingly win against the evil aliens……

Personal logo Patrick R Supporting Member of TMP01 May 2018 11:54 p.m. PST

The question is what's in it for the aliens ?

Other than a colonial, patronizing mindset I don't quite see why they would insist on unifying a planet other than that they are meddling busybodies just for the sake of it.

Sci-Fi sometimes has a scale problem, in that, especially when the FTL contrivance is invoked. A galaxy is quickly reduced to something the size of a country, planets are counties or cities and the only cultural differences (if they do exist) on any given planet are more a matter of coming from "the wrong side of the tracks" than a true multicultural society, or if they do take it into account, it usually ends up on the "planet of hats" trope side of the argument.

We can't discard that over time an alien society grew into a unified single nation, but wouldn't the variety of our planet be worthy of study rather than give a blanket order to unify it all under one government.

Also one might ask, how did the aliens achieve this if they had the same start as we did ? Were there factors involved we humans might not "benefit" from, such as biological imperatives to act a certain way or did some force or figure unify the planet and what was the reason/method used ?

Now there are reasons why we may want or need to start cooperating or even put somebody in charge of global efforts if we want to tackle large scale projects such as space habitats and exploiting our own solar system or even start our transition to a type II civilisation. A daunting task, but not unfeasible.

Coming back on the subject, the whole "unified government" sounds more like a utopists' answer to our problems by merely shifting the highest decision levels to the planetary scale, which ends up being one of those concepts that gets tossed about as being self-evident, and nobody really questions, other than those of a paranoid mindset who believe that it's all a huge conspiracy to control people.

The problem is that right now there is no blanket solution for our planet. And I'll give one example that is telling of all the hurdles that we'll have to jump. My great grandmother would rather have died of hunger than buy a bread from the baker's right across the street, because back then in a small village at the dawn of the 20th century the main street was the imaginary demarcation line between the good, decent folk on one side and the bad people on the other.

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP02 May 2018 2:12 a.m. PST

but wouldn't the variety of our planet be worthy of study rather than give a blanket order to unify it all under one government.

One government wouldn't destroy cultural diversity. There are several countries that celebrate a multi-cultural society, united under a single authority. Examples include Australia.

I'd picture a federal system, where the "old" countries continue to exist & flourish: the EU?

I do like your point about the ethno-centicity of people always makes us the centre of alien interest instead, as much more likely, of marginal interest.

Earthdog02 May 2018 5:10 a.m. PST

Dan, Aliens demanding a unified earth government are mentioned in "Legions of Steel". In the setting they (LOA-League of Aliens) are only willing to provide earth with high grade technology (such as spaceships and how to manufacture power armour) to defend ourselves from the advancing Machines if we provide a single government. Apperently they dont want to be bothered with talking to everybody.
As for why they would want to give us the technology? To put bluntly, they need the cannon fodder, or at least a speedbump.

Much as in the real world though the UNE (United Nations of Earth) is in reality quite fractured with several of the larger countries making their own deals with selected aliens.

Though the game itself is now OOP there is still a forum about it: https://los.turtleshellprod.com

One of the original designers was attempting a reboot before his real world job required him to move to china.

Dezmond02 May 2018 5:38 a.m. PST

>The question is what's in it for the aliens ?

Simplifies the paperwork.

Legion 402 May 2018 6:29 a.m. PST

Ha! If it landed in DC, that alone may be reason for some countries to take offense, and for their diplomats to show up at the WH together with American "voluntareers" carrying picket signs (and perhaps some torches). Lol. Yeah, that would really show the damn Aliens how unified we are. :)
The extremely polarized denizens of our gov't, etc., would still not agree on anything ! Let alone the rest of the planet's gov'ts … wink

And I'm sure the ACLU and PETA would somehow get involved. evil grin Plus again the media in all forms would go absolutely Full Tilt Bozo to get the "real true story"!

ScoutJock

They'd have to kill us all first, well most of us.
"We had to destroy the planet to save it."

cosmicbank

form a one world govenment then United Earth would defeat the aliens then we can go back to killing each other.

Sad but I think those comments would most likely hold true … evil grin

Roderick Robertson Fezian02 May 2018 9:39 a.m. PST

Take off and Blork them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

cavcrazy02 May 2018 1:38 p.m. PST

What makes you think they are not here already?

Ed Mohrmann Supporting Member of TMP02 May 2018 1:40 p.m. PST

Aliens demand a unified world government ?

Oy vey…

Hey You02 May 2018 1:59 p.m. PST

The backstory from Princess Ryan's Space Marines Miniature Rules (Mark G. McLaughlin), East Wind Rain Co. 1991 seems to fall into a similar type situation that you presented above.

Daughter of an American writer, Ryan was in the process of marrying Harry, Prince of Wales, when a spaceship appeared over London. lts arrival only temporarily delayed the wedding at Westminster Abbey. The occupants of the spaceship, two envoys from the Holy, Universal and Glorious Empire, were so impressed by the pomp and circumstance of the ceremony that they invited themselves to attend.

Erroneously assuming that such a grand event could only be held for the rulers of a world, the envoys mistakenly reported that Ryan and Harry were in charge of the planet. After all, the royal wedding mirrored events in their empire, and notions of nobility, titles and social rank were far easier for them to understand than the more obscure tenets of the multitude of multinational corporations and democratic institutions that really governed the Earth. Bureaucrats and administrators sent out from the core of the great galactic empire were briefed accordingly, and thus, the myth was perpetuated.

Unable to convince the imperial ambassadors that the prince and princess had no real authority, the governments of Earth decided to make the best of it. They set up the royal couple as liaison officers between themselves and the imperial agents.

A minor planet on the outer rim of a huge star empire, Earth had little choice but to accept the subordinate position of client state. As with all client planets, Earth was required to provide combat units to serve as auxiliary forces to the imperial fleets and legions. Several units were formed, but first among them was Princess Ryan's Space Marines …

Lion in the Stars02 May 2018 7:22 p.m. PST

Point, laugh, tell them to come back in 200 years, we might have sorted out who is going to be in charge that decade by then.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2018 8:58 a.m. PST

Simplifies the paperwork.

Exact.
The "Who's in charge here?" Box does not include a drop down menu feature.

Legion 406 May 2018 8:21 a.m. PST

What makes you think they are not here already?
That's classified !

Nothing to see here folks … move on …

"Who's in charge here?"
That seems to be a question very often asked lately … If aliens are here or not … huh?

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP07 May 2018 2:22 a.m. PST

Man, are you in trouble now!

Dan

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Legion 407 May 2018 8:00 a.m. PST

Nothing a little Small Arms fire couldn't fix … evil grin

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP11 Jun 2018 8:23 a.m. PST

Legion 4

And … after we have disarmed ourselves, suddenly the only ones appearing on the ballot for Earth President will be Alien candidates.

Question:
Would you vote for Queen Ndnd for Earth President? :)

link
i.imgur.com/dmo1rSx.png

Dan
TMP link

Legion 411 Jun 2018 3:49 p.m. PST

We'll just leave it up to the UN … LOL !!! evil grin

Tgunner16 Jun 2018 9:22 a.m. PST

I guess that we will be forced to use the massive grand cannon that is in the far west of the US to destroy their ships in orbit. Then we would have to deploy our hidden fleets of jump capable warships to their planet of origin and bombard them from orbit because annoyed us so.

Legion 417 Jun 2018 7:15 a.m. PST

That's Classified !

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