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"Dumbest concept sci-fi fighting contraptions " Topic


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Action Log

01 Apr 2018 6:51 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Crossposted to SF Discussion board
  • Crossposted to Spaceship Gaming board


2,283 hits since 1 Apr 2018
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Pages: 1 2 

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP01 Apr 2018 12:00 p.m. PST

I'm not talking about coolness factor. That trumps everything. Im talking about how practical they are.
All kinds of factors apply here. Cust. Balance. Cost. Ignorance of physics. And of course, cost.

1. Any flying machine in the Star Ears universe with wings. Why do you need wings in space?

2. Walkers. Everyone you see is just too darned tall. See what simple can do to them in Empire Strikes Back? But they do make cool GASLIGHT models, especially the smaller ones.

3. Two legged walkers. Again, easily to trip. Even teddy bears can beat them!

4. OGRES. Sorry, Dear Editor. But has anyone ever done an estimate on just how much steel goes into them, and how much better martial use can be found for them?

5. Battletech, Mecha, etc. come on. Let's be serious. How can ANY of these make any sense?

6. Any grav type hovercraft. Let's discover some science first.

Sorry, people. I don't see anything better than tracked or wheeled vehicles on the ground.

Personal logo The Beast Rampant Supporting Member of TMP01 Apr 2018 12:28 p.m. PST

. Any flying machine in the Star Ears universe with wings. Why do you need wings in space?

X-Wings have them for atmospheric flight. But then, that doens't explain why Ep. 7 had TIE fighters doing it too, which makes ZERO sense.

Stryderg01 Apr 2018 12:35 p.m. PST

Hand grenades that teleport the target to an alternate dimension.

Giant robots that convert to air plane or space ship mode.

wrgmr101 Apr 2018 12:41 p.m. PST

Star Wars White/Black Plastic armor, which protects from NOTHING. So why wear it?

phssthpok01 Apr 2018 12:57 p.m. PST

Camo on giant anthropomorphic robots/mechs.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian01 Apr 2018 12:57 p.m. PST

The Flying Sub from Seaview.

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP01 Apr 2018 1:15 p.m. PST

Individual one-person(being) fighters for space – when your opponent's battleship can first metres-wide lasers

The walker thing is huge and I totally agree – seriously, when you can use treads?

platypus01au01 Apr 2018 1:30 p.m. PST

And I understand there is an optimum length-width ratio for vehicles with tracks, otherwise they can't turn. So that rules out at least 1/2 the sci-fi tanks I've seen.

Also, the Star Wars universe seems woefully under stocked with thermonuclear weapons.

JohnG

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse01 Apr 2018 1:48 p.m. PST

Star Wars White/Black Plastic armor, which protects from NOTHING. So why wear it?

Armor doesn't work in any movies, bronze, leather, mail or plate all made of paper mache.

Not sure if phasers are "contraptions"
But they are the most useless infantry weapon ever made.

Give starfleet some colt 1911s and Garands and no romulan, kligon, cardassian, dominion or borg army could stand in their way.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP01 Apr 2018 2:14 p.m. PST

In defense of the Ogres--and everyone knows how much I dislike equipment which requires rosters--they were supposed to be a new composite armor, and at about three times the length of a tank, you'd be talking maybe the material of a company to a battalion. In a world of drones, automation and shrinking tank crews they're not as implausible as I wish they were.

It's combat helicopters I keep thinking are a silly concept in a war with technological near-peers and suspect even when you have a technological edge. But is it still a dumb SF concept if people actually build them?

Oh. And the IFV. You would swear no one ever heard of battlecruisers.

Legion 401 Apr 2018 2:32 p.m. PST

2. Walkers. Everyone you see is just too darned tall.
5. Battletech, Mecha, etc. come on. Let's be serious. How can ANY of these make any sense?
Sorry, people. I don't see anything better than tracked or wheeled vehicles on the ground.

The walker thing is huge and I totally agree seriously, when you can use treads?
Totally agree ! Any Titan, Mech, etc., any large tall walking vehicle. IS A TARGET … You have no place to hide. Not to mention all you have to do is take out a leg … 2 legged people or devices don't do well on only one leg.

Camo on giant anthropomorphic robots/mechs.
I use tactical colors and/or camo on all my Titans/Combat Walkers. They are a dumb enough concept being 20, 30, 60ft.+ tall Walking Targets … Don't compound it by painting them in circus colors !

E.g. My Vandal Class Reaver

picture

And yes in combat you wouldn't be flying banners, flags, etc. I know … so in this case he's not fighting …

My Warlord Mk.III

picture
This is what a combat vehicle/war machine looks like …

My Warhound Mk.II …

picture
Panzer Gray … Not Panzie Pink, red, purple, orange, lime green, etc.

Garand01 Apr 2018 2:49 p.m. PST

X-Wings have them for atmospheric flight. But then, that doens't explain why Ep. 7 had TIE fighters doing it too, which makes ZERO sense.

We know that X-wings have repulsorlift technology since day ONE. They don't need wings for atmospheric flight, ever. IMHO though they do make sense as mounting platforms for the blaster cannons, in the same way the Apache's wings are not to provide lift, but rather as a place to carry ordinance.

Damon.

USAFpilot01 Apr 2018 3:01 p.m. PST

Spaceships don't need wings, unless they want to fly in a planets atmosphere. The space shuttle had wings so it could land back on Earth. Rocket propulsion to land a spaceship vertically uses a tremendous amount of fuel. Everything in aeronautical engineering focuses on weight and cost.

Also, a common military strategy throughout the ages has been to control the high ground. The sky above and now space represent the ultimate high ground.

Oberlindes Sol LIC01 Apr 2018 4:26 p.m. PST

Walkers have never made sense to me. Walkers are taller and therefore easier to hit than wheeled or tracked vehicles. Moreover, the legs are more complicated and subject to breakdown than wheels or tracks. On the other hand, they do look cool.

Air cushion technology has some limitations. It can't float over some rough terrain, but for roads, fields, and many bodies of water, it's useful. The amount of weight -- that is, armor -- that it can lift and move may be another factor.

Anti-gravity vehicles can go over any terrain and may generate more power per unit of size of power plant than air cushion vehicles, making them a better choice for armored vehicles. Cost is probably the major limitation on grav vehicles.

Personal logo herkybird Supporting Member of TMP01 Apr 2018 5:00 p.m. PST

Any flying machine in the Star Ears universe with wings. Why do you need wings in space?

Also, wings in space do stabilise a vehicle and reduce spinning.

At the end of all these arguments though, they have walkers, wings on spaceships etc just to look spectacular on screen.

Allen57 Supporting Member of TMP01 Apr 2018 5:41 p.m. PST

Started a Star Wars Imperial style army. Everything said about the equipment is true. The stuff just could not survive. Oh well, shut up and play.

Herky, how do wings stabilize a spaceship???

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian01 Apr 2018 6:50 p.m. PST

I love Star Trek, but those engine nacelles make no freaking sense. Enterprise should be spinning like a top.

Neal Smith01 Apr 2018 7:39 p.m. PST

Nemesis Dreadknight

link

Coelacanth01 Apr 2018 7:45 p.m. PST

Skydiver, a conjoined fighter aircraft / submarine used to fight invading aliens in Gerry Anderson's UFO series.

Ron

TNE230001 Apr 2018 8:06 p.m. PST

picture

Lion in the Stars01 Apr 2018 8:57 p.m. PST

Large walkers have "shoot that APFSDS-DU round here" painted in red and white concentric circles.

Short walkers, I'm talking 4m +-0.5 (or smaller) can take cover like an infantryman but carry a 120mm gun. Stuff ranging from Appleseed Landmates to Gasaraki Tactical Armors/Fakes in size.

Since the roommates just re-watched Edge of Tomorrow, those Jacket armored exoframes come to mind.

Zephyr101 Apr 2018 9:29 p.m. PST

"The Flying Sub from Seaview."

Not so dumb. I used to "fly" my model of it in the pool. Properly ballasted it could do 20 feet easily. It has pretty good 'aerodynamics' to be able to glide underwater. (With the props off to reduce drag, my 1/48 scale B-17 model could go from the deep end to hit the wall at the shallow end.) And these were unpowered

"1. Any flying machine in the Star Ears universe with wings. Why do you need wings in space?"

If the ears are big enough, you won't need wings… evil grin

Parzival01 Apr 2018 9:59 p.m. PST

I love Star Trek, but those engine nacelles make no freaking sense. Enterprise should be spinning like a top.

The nacelles aren't Newtonian rocket engines. They don't expel reaction mass to accelerate the vessel. Rather, they are warp engines, warping spacetime to carry the ship faster than light. As such, their off-center location would have no Newtonian affect on the vessel at all, and it would not spin.

The Enterprise does have what are apparently Newtonian rockets in the "impulse engines," which are mounted on the upper rear of the saucer section, and thus much closer to the ship's apparent center of mass. Of course, the series never states these are in fact reaction mass devices, so whether or not they would result in an unstable flight is not clear. For that matter, it's not clear where the actual center of mass of the Enterprise is anyway, as we don't know the relative densities of the various hulls, pylons, or nacelles. Indeed, the nacelles could actually be quite dense compared to the other portions of the ship, so it's possible to assume that between the nacelles, saucer section, and secondary hull, the vessel is balanced along a perfect relative centerline with regards to any Newtonian thrusters, so that unwanted spin does not occur.

Parzival01 Apr 2018 10:15 p.m. PST

As for dumb design, the TIE fighter is remarkably bad. It consists of a center cockpit with no capacity for the pilot to view to the rear, and to the side the pilot's view is blocked by two immense flat surfaces. How one maintains any sort of visual situational awareness in that thing is anybody's guess. Plus, those side panels are practically targeting guides, with the bisecting lines of the hexagons converging on a nice center point, as if to say "aim here" to enemy gunners.

Another horrid design is the B-Wing, with its off-center spinning(!) cockpit. How do you fly that thing? How do you aim its guns?

And last, but not least, I give you the nuttiest uber-cool sci-fi fighting device of all time…the lightsaber! Yes, a handheld, throbbing blade of pure plasma that can lop off any body part it so much as brushes against, including the wielder's own! Don't drop.it, young apprentice!

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP01 Apr 2018 10:27 p.m. PST

I always wondered what was the power supply for the light saber.

Gaz004501 Apr 2018 11:21 p.m. PST

AA Duracellium power cells of course!!

Hades wolf02 Apr 2018 1:28 a.m. PST

F22 Raptor and F35 shitehawk

Dumb, dumb and expensive

Personal logo herkybird Supporting Member of TMP02 Apr 2018 1:45 a.m. PST

Herky, how do wings stabilize a spaceship??? </Q>

It spreads the mass of the ship. You can see it in action on the ISS when a small object ratates rapidly, but a larger one turns slower.

picture

nickinsomerset02 Apr 2018 2:24 a.m. PST

Walking things and those odd GW 40K Tanks,

Tally Ho!

ZULUPAUL Supporting Member of TMP02 Apr 2018 3:50 a.m. PST

Walkers, never understood why such an unstable rough terrain platform would ever be thought of.
Oh and back banners on terminators etc (I know not technically vehicles) that basically say "here I am, shoot me.".

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse02 Apr 2018 5:23 a.m. PST

Most things in star wars is stupid, because they are stupid movies made for 11 year olds. The movies follow the same logic and coolness style as cartoons. The stuff in star trek has no more logic to them than the 80s transformers cartoons.

Personal logo Saber6 Supporting Member of TMP Fezian02 Apr 2018 5:51 a.m. PST

Star Wars is proof of Government Procurement

Legion 402 Apr 2018 7:26 a.m. PST

those odd GW 40K Tanks,
And the models GW/FW continues to make just gets frakk'n weirder !!!! huh? If that was not already possible ! huh?

Walkers, never understood why such an unstable rough terrain platform would ever be thought of.
Oh and back banners on terminators etc (I know not technically vehicles) that basically say "here I am, shoot me.".
Amen !

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP02 Apr 2018 10:40 a.m. PST

As Willie and Joe said about tanks: "a movin' foxhole attracts the eye."

Akalabeth Inactive Member02 Apr 2018 12:10 p.m. PST

Not all mecha is bad. Smaller ones like Gears or VOTOMS make more sense, where they function mainly as power armor not as a walking tank.

Darkest Star Games Sponsoring Member of TMP02 Apr 2018 1:31 p.m. PST

ANYTHING that comes over the horizon once powerful lasers are on the battlefield. If you can see it, you can hit it, no point in there being mechs, helicopters, planes, or even spaceships in low orbit.

Akalabeth Inactive Member02 Apr 2018 5:14 p.m. PST

Question is how many missiles can you shoot down with lasers in the time it takes those missiles to clear the horizon and hit your formation?

Sargonarhes02 Apr 2018 7:33 p.m. PST

To each his own. I've stopped caring what others think.

Prince Rupert of the Rhine02 Apr 2018 11:46 p.m. PST

Starship Troopers tactical RPG nukes…

skinkmasterreturns03 Apr 2018 4:10 a.m. PST

While not a war machine, it bothers me that the Jupiter 2 was bigger on the inside than on the outside. While John Robinson and Zachary Smith were doctors,they weren't THE Doctor.Of course Blake's 7 was the opposite. While the Liberator looks freaking huge from the outside,you didn't see all that much of the inside.

Legion 403 Apr 2018 7:57 a.m. PST

4. OGRES. Sorry, Dear Editor. But has anyone ever done an estimate on just how much steel goes into them, and how much better martial use can be found for them?
I use the OGRE models as 6mm very heavy combat vehicles. I forget what scale the actual ORGE models are ? 1/500 ? But they work for Super Heavy Combat Vehicles/mobile weapons platforms for 6mm. I stat them like Titans/Mechs.

goragrad03 Apr 2018 12:01 p.m. PST

Actually (according to Popular Science and Mechanics at any rate) the US military was looking long and hard a walkers in the 60s and 70s for rough terrain.

Two and four legged versions.

Obviously they weren't successful.

TheBeast Supporting Member of TMP03 Apr 2018 1:51 p.m. PST

Battle mechs have always left me shaking my head. NOTHING anthropomorphic!

However, last I heard, chicken-legs were the most adept at walking, given fly-by-wire, though they still 'hop about' a bit to keep from falling over.

I thought OGREs were all plastic…

Doug

Legion 403 Apr 2018 2:21 p.m. PST

Two and four legged versions.
Obviously they weren't successful.
Very true ! And they were looking at one man copters and/or jet packs for the individual Infantryman. So … evil grin

They are working on a 4 legged mechanical "pack mule" sort of think even today.

I thought OGREs were all plastic…
All 3 of mine are metal … But I've had these for a long time …
picture
I use the different SW Walkers for 6mm small/Lgt 1 or 2 man Combat Walkers … As I said, I use the ORGEs for 6mm Heavy Combat Vehicles/Mobile Weapons Platforms …

Akalabeth Inactive Member03 Apr 2018 3:34 p.m. PST

OGRES don't make any sense, but Bolos on the other hand, they make a great deal of sense.

Guthroth03 Apr 2018 11:42 p.m. PST

Man portable Tactical Nukes are not sci-fi. Look up the "Davy Crocket" system from the 1950s.

It was fired from a Jeep mounted RR, but that was 60+ years ago.

Today they probably could build a shoulder fired one if they wanted to ….

Prince Rupert of the Rhine04 Apr 2018 1:46 a.m. PST

StiIl a rubbish idea.

The Davy crocket isn't an RPG like the starship troopers movie either it had a range of 2-4Km depending on the delivery system.The RPG-7 has a maximum range of 920 meters and is only considered effective out to about 200 meters

The Davy Crocket would produce an almost instantly lethal radiation dosage (in excess of 10,000 rem, 100 Sv) within 150 m, and a probably fatal dose (around 600 rem, 6 Sv) 400 m.

So an RPG with a similar payload to a Davy Crocket would have you firing it inside the fatal dose of radiation zone bearing in mind in the movie the Starship troopers aren't wearing NBC that seems a tad dumb.

Guthroth04 Apr 2018 5:28 a.m. PST

Oh I never sad it was a good idea ! I seem to recall reading that it was suggested that the DC was fired like a mortar with a hill between the firer and the target.

Not sci-fi but still bonkers !

Legion 404 Apr 2018 6:45 a.m. PST

Yeah … that was a suicide/last resort type weapon … "Davy" didn't last long in the US inventory. There was even rumors/talk about a nuc hand grenade ! huh?

Also I mentioned before I was "selected" when a senior 1LT in the 101 to be an Atomic Demolitions Mission Officer. @'82-'83. Yes, basically "Back Pack Nucs". huh?

But of course it had a timing device. So once the patrol was inserted, the device would be set for a certain length of time. Then the patrol would E&E out to an extraction point. "Hopefully … ?" frown

The Patrol would consist of an Inf Plt w/SatCom to JCS/POTUS, CE Tm to emplace & arm the device. Plus an SF A-team of 12.

Cold War Fun and Skullduggery !!!! evil grin Not Sci-fi !

TheBeast Supporting Member of TMP04 Apr 2018 6:56 a.m. PST

All 3 of mine are metal …

Sorry, I meant in the original fluff…

Or some other kind of handwavium, entitled 'biphase carbide'.

Doug

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