MagnusPloug2 | 18 Mar 2018 4:11 a.m. PST |
Dear community In the Funcken book "Arms and Uniforms – The Napoleonic Wars" on a page with infantry from the state of "Hesse-Darmstadt", one of the men is labelled "regiment du corps". Does any one know what this means. Is it a line regiment? |
Mollinary | 18 Mar 2018 6:11 a.m. PST |
I would suspect it is the Leibregiment? |
Cerdic | 18 Mar 2018 6:43 a.m. PST |
Well, the word corps literally means "body". So a 'regiment of the body' has the meaning in English of bodyguard. More or less. So your feller is basically in the guards. |
Prince of Essling | 18 Mar 2018 8:13 a.m. PST |
Indeed body guard – to act as guard for the palaces. Histofig illustration:
Knotel:
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42flanker | 18 Mar 2018 8:14 a.m. PST |
'Regiment du corps', as in 'Garde du Corps'- except I believe that in German usage the term tended to designate cavalry. 'Leib regiment' in German has the same meaning as 'regiment du corps'(Lit. Body regiment) but was used in this period to designate infantry- as in 'Leib Regiment,' 'Leib Garde', 'Leib Grenadier Garde,' etc. |
Esquire | 18 Mar 2018 9:02 a.m. PST |
Well, I am glad you asked this question because: i) it caused me to learn about Hesse Darmstadt and ii) it reaffirms my belief that you have to be very careful using Funken. I am an old fart and relied upon Funken for years -- the best we had. But be careful. So, what have we learned? There are two Hesse Darmstadt Garde du Corps uniforms. As shown by Prince of Essling and the Historifig figure, a yellow one for formal/parade and a blue one for campaign. I might lack knowledge, but I cannot think of another unit with such disparate parade versus campaign uniforms. But what does Funken do? It shows the campaign uniform (blue) in the picture but then describes the parade uniform -- without any explanation. Classic. Total confusion if that is your only source. |
deadhead | 18 Mar 2018 9:46 a.m. PST |
The most confusing thing about those books is that the text is often many pages from the pictures……. But how wonderful were they back then? Blandford were only getting started. Osprey were just a twinkle in someone's eye. Kids these days….they know nowt…….. we had it hard in our day. |
Fatuus Natural | 18 Mar 2018 10:25 a.m. PST |
Ah, yes. I loved my Blandford books. I used to save up for them, and then pore over them for hours. I still have them, all though the dusk jackets have become rather tatty. |
Esquire | 18 Mar 2018 11:28 a.m. PST |
And my first set of Funcken was in French so that only added to the confusion. And yes, as I young man/boy, I tried to translate. I can still find translations in pencil above certain passages Books are very beat up since it was my only source for painting guides. |
MagnusPloug2 | 18 Mar 2018 12:06 p.m. PST |
wow – thats a lot of helpfulness. How wonderful and helpful. I have a battalion of minifigs 25mm that I want to paint as those. Thanks. Funcken is the books of my childhood miniature times and they are lovely. Haven't seen them i years and gaining acces to them I now see, as i commented, that the text is indeed not very elaborate. At the bottom are the picture and text. Funcken is defiantly talking about infantry in this case – so I dont think it should be interpreted as "gard du corpse" which I also understand to generally refer to cavalry. So, what I get from the above is that in term of Hesse-Darmstadt Infantry (as here) "regiment du corps" is the same as the Leib regiment – which is a regiment for field service and not a guarding regiment. Any disagree?
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Prince of Essling | 18 Mar 2018 2:52 p.m. PST |
Below is my attempt to try and clarify evolution of the Hesse-Darmstadt army: Duchy of Hesse-Darmstadt August 1806 became a Grand Duchy; prior to that date was a Landgraftschaft. Infantry: 1790 infantry regiments comprised regimental HQ of 16 personnel, 2 battalions of 4 musketeer companies, each of 110 personnel. In June 1803 the Hesse-Darmstadt Army was reorganised following new territorial acquisitions. The infantry was brigaded (the equivalent of regiments) 2 infantry battalions plus 1 fusilier battalion. Brigade HQ 7 personnel, battalion HQ 16 personnel, and 103 (7 schϋtzen) personnel per company. Three Garrison brigades (soon retitled "Reservebrigaden") were formed each comprised a Landregiment (militia) and a Garnison (garrison) Bataillon. 1806 Reserve Brigades battalions comprised of 4 companies each of 160 personnel. 1809 Regiment Gross-und Erbprinz reorganised into 3 battalions of 6 companies (1 grenadier, 1 voltigeur & 4 fusilier) for service in Spain. Leib Regiment zu Fϋẞ 1803 June Leib-Brigade 1806 August Leib-Garde Brigade 1812 February Leib-Garde Regiment
Landgraf Regiment 1803 June Brigade Landgraf 1806 August Leib-Brigade 1812 February Leib-Regiment Erbprinz Bataillon (Garrison battalion) 1794 December Feld-bataillon Erbprinz (raised) 1803 June Brigade Erbprinz 1806 August Brigade Gross und Erbprinz 1808 August Gross und Erbprinz Regiment 1812 April captured at Badajoz. 1814 May re-raised from returning prisoners & new recruits Prinz Emil Regiment (raised 1814) 1st Leib-Grenadier Bataillon 1799 November 1st Fϋsilier-Bataillon 1803 June attached to Brigade Erbprinz as Fϋsilier Battalion 1806 August 2nd Leib-Fϋsilier Bataillon 1808 August amalgamated with line battalions into Gross-und Erbprinz Regiment Hanau-Lichtenberg Grenadier Batailon 1790 became 2nd Leib-Grenadier Bataillon 1803 disbanded, most personnel to Fϋsilier Bataillon 1803 June attached to Landgraf Brigade 1806 August renamed "1st Leib-Fϋsilier Bataillon" 1812 April became part of Provisional Leichtes Infanterie-Regiment Leichtes Infanterie Bataillon 1799 November 2nd Fϋsilier Bataillon 1803 June attached to Leib-Brigade as 1st Leib-Fϋsilier Battalion 1806 August Garde-Fϋsilier Bataillon 1812 April became part of Provisional Leichtes Infanterie-Regiment Provisional Leichtes Infanterie-Regiment 1812 April formed from Garde-Fϋsilier Bataillon & 1st Leib-Fϋsilier Battalion 1813 June renamed "Garde-Fϋsilier Regiment" Jδgerkorps Disbanded 1796ish Land-Regiment ?? Depot Bataillon ?? Garnisons-Brigade Starkenburg (formed June 1803) attached to Leib-Brigade Garnisons-Brigade Oberhessen (formed June 1803) attached to Brigade Landgraf Garnisons-Brigade Westfalen (formed June 1803) attached to Brigade Erbprinz Cavalry: Garde du Corps Regiment Chevauxlegers (raised 1790 with 2 squadrons) 1791 3rd squadron added. 1806 renamed Garde-Chevauxleger Regiment 1812 4th squadrons added; nearly destroyed at Berezina. 1813 reraised with 4 squadrons Husaren-Korps (Gendarmerie type unit rather than a field regiment) Landdragoner (internal security unit) Artillery: 1790 April 2 artillery companies 1806 3 companies 1813 4 companies each with 6 x 6pdr cannon & 2 x 7pdr howitzers
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Garde de Paris | 18 Mar 2018 6:41 p.m. PST |
Just how large was this Garde du Corps Cavalry unit? I don't think it was more than a single company or squadron. I recall passing it by back in the 1960's while researching Knoetel at the Philadelphia Public Library. GdeP |
MagnusPloug2 | 19 Mar 2018 2:22 a.m. PST |
Thank you Prince of Essling, that is an enormous piece of reference. What would your take bee on the Funcken "regiment du corps" infantry in my inquiry (the exact same as in your 2nd picture but with light blues facing instead of red). Which of the reg/bat. listed does it correspond to, and do you know anything about to where it was deployed and saw action? (I see that my pictures are gone. It was the first time for me putting a picture on the web and apparently photo bucket is not free for this service -i will try and find another hosting party for future sharing). |
Mollinary | 19 Mar 2018 4:51 a.m. PST |
Go down to illustration 10. |
Mollinary | 19 Mar 2018 4:56 a.m. PST |
brigade-uniform-tafeln.de Has a complete card covering the Leibregiment of the Grossherzogtum (Grand Duchy) Hesse-Darmstadt, including it's Flags. It shows the uniform 1809-1814 with the light blue facings you describe. If you cannot find this, a simple web search for Leibregiment Hesse-Darmstadt turns up a vast array of hits if you look under Images.
Mollinary |
Prince of Essling | 19 Mar 2018 1:32 p.m. PST |
@MagnusPloug2, Have just had a glance at "Armies of Germany and the Confederation of the Rhine 1792-1815 (Volume. 1) by George F. Nafziger -which covers Hesse Darmstadt. He says on 1 December 1806 according to French archival material refers to Garde zu Fuss Brigade, Garde du Corps Brigade & Erbprinz brigade. Reading between the lines the Garde du Corps brigade equates to the Leib-Brigade which wore light blue facings. 1806 including flag:
1809-13 linkAfraid my sources are silent on the strength of the mounted garde du Corps, but were very likely small in number. |
Prince of Essling | 19 Mar 2018 2:03 p.m. PST |
Leib-Regiment 1813-14: link Mounted Officer link standards linkSoldat der 2. und Soldat der 4. Kompagnie in Rόckansicht, Ganzfiguren linkSubaltern-Offizier; Sergeant und 6 Mannschaften der 1. Kompagnie link Subaltern-Offizier; Sergeant; Gemeiner der 8. Kompagnie link Musicians |
Major Bloodnok | 20 Mar 2018 11:14 a.m. PST |
Either my meds are acting up or I can see the Cheshire cat's tail, sticking out from behind the Zimmermann's cap, in the 1768-1790 plate… |
Prince of Essling | 20 Mar 2018 2:51 p.m. PST |
@Major Blodnok – I think you need a new pair of spectacles! |
MagnusPloug2 | 21 Mar 2018 11:08 a.m. PST |
Being of the internet for a few days its impressive and very much helpfull to see all the knowledge and reference that has come up. This is a wonderfull help and not something my google-skills would have turned up in a hundred days. I haven't seen the book you mention and for the moment I am now more than covered and can get my unit painted. Thank you all who has contributed!! |
Paul Demet | 25 Mar 2018 11:36 p.m. PST |
There is a detailed history of the Garde du Corps, which had a total of 65 officers and men in 1790 – 'Geschichte der Grossherzoglich Hessischen Garde-Unteroffiziers-Compagnie, zur Feier ihres zweihundertjährigen Bestehens auf allerhöchsten Befehl seiner königlichen Hoheit des Grossherzogs bearbeitet'by Carl Christian Roeder von Diersburg, freiherr published by Bekker in Darmstadt in 1857. It includes details of the changes in uniforms and is available on line at: PDF link |
Paul Demet | 25 Mar 2018 11:43 p.m. PST |
The detailed history of the Leibgarde Regiment is also available on line at link |