"Stokes field" Topic
5 Posts
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paganflesh | 17 Mar 2018 7:55 p.m. PST |
Have read that german mercenaries were present at this battle. .but are they landsknechts? It took place in 1487,the same year maximilian started recruiting his troops, how would they appear and can I use my new warmonger 10mm landsknecht in such an army? |
Swampster | 18 Mar 2018 2:14 a.m. PST |
Stock answer is that they are your figures, so use what you like :) If the figures you have a like most landsknecht figures, then they will be for something around the 1520s or later. Fashions changed a good deal in the generation or so after Stoke Field. To see this, have a look at the drawings by Dolstein especially
The figures on the left are landsknechts and you can see the lack of big hats and feathers. Only a few bits of clothing are slashed and the majority is very tight fitting. Some of his other pictures do show some hats and feathers but from the battle pictures it seems they are the minority. Even those pictures are about a decade later than Stoke Field but give you a bit more idea of the look. You'd probably get closer to the look – especially in 10mm – by using Burgundian Wars Swiss figures with their tighter clothing. Something like these
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Daniel S | 18 Mar 2018 2:33 a.m. PST |
In 1487 they would at best be "proto-landsknechts" as the Landsknechts did not yet have a distinctive identity, it took decades for the Landsknecht martial culture to develop and mature. In apperance they would not look like Landsknechts at all, rather they would have been dressed and equipped like the late 15th Century troops they were. Landsknecht style clothing took time to develop and once the ball got rolling they changed styles at least every 5-10 years, so the Landsknechts at Ravenna and Pavia were not only diffrent from each other but also very diffrent from the Landsknechts of the 1499 Swabian war. The so called "Hausbuch" from Schloss Wolfegg hase 3 images showing late 15th C German soldiers link link link You can find larger versions of the images in the wiki article link The "Berner Schilling" (a Swiss chronicle) also has some usefull images as it is likely that Swiss were among the troops that Martin Schwarz brought over.
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paganflesh | 18 Mar 2018 4:41 a.m. PST |
That's what I was thinking also, I don't care for the early reislaufer look myself. But I couldn't turn down the warmonger minis when I saw them. Thanks for the info. .is much appreciated. |
Puster | 18 Mar 2018 6:23 a.m. PST |
The "Landknechts" were created in that decade – Ranke says around 1482 – by Maximilian for his usage as loyal troops for his reign as duke of Burgund (wether he actually was, for what parts of Charles the Bold and Marias heritage, or wether he only was reigning for his son, was part of the conflict). The Swiss – nominally still members of the HRE, for some time decided not to fight for the French king but also join Maximilian, and provided many experienced veterans that trained the bands. Somewhere in the five years between 1482 and 1487 lays the origin of the "Landsknechts" as an infantry with its own character and corps de esprit, distinct in some aspects from all previous infantry types, and creating a way to fight that was no longer dependent from their inclusion into Maximilians army (though that certainly helped). Both at Stoke Fields and Calliano they made their debut on foreign theatres in 1487. As outlooks go, Warmongers are not fitting to the looks that you would find in 1487. Going for "Swiss" and "Burgundian" infantry of the Burgundian war of 1477 is probably the closest you would get here. |
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