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"Grab Robotech miniatures while you can" Topic


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1,662 hits since 28 Feb 2018
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Sargonarhes28 Feb 2018 7:12 a.m. PST

It's over.
link

Harmony Gold has cancelled Palladium's license for Robotech models. They have until the end of March to liquidate any existing merchandise.

Get'em while you can. They're going unseen again.

mad monkey 128 Feb 2018 8:14 a.m. PST

Whoo, that comment section is hitting Palladium hard. Deservedly so from my understanding. Only thing missing is the pitchforks and torches.

Ghostrunner28 Feb 2018 8:24 a.m. PST

Q: Who could have seen this coming?

A: Everyone.

I didn't back the KS, but bought some of the games when they started showing up on the discount lists.

Sounds to me like this one is the nail in Kevin Siembieda's professional coffin.

28mm Fanatik28 Feb 2018 9:33 a.m. PST

Something smells fishy in this whole fiasco. With an experienced miniature company like Ninja Division/Soda Pop "doing the heavy lifting" on the miniature side as Palladium is claiming, how can it not have foreseen that the 3D sculpts provided by ND/SP's sculptors may not be compatible with the tooling of the manufacturer in China?

Palladium may not be experienced enough to anticipate this if it's only concerned with writing the rules and trusted ND/SP to do everything else, but you would think that someone from ND/SP would have foreseen it with the company's experience on the miniature side of the business.

Maybe it's Ninja Division/Soda Pop's fault. At least partly anyway. Palladium's prior miniature experience is limited to metal miniatures for its RPG's, which is a wholly different process from plastic minis.

Woulda, coulda. No use crying over spilled milk.

I snatched up a couple of starter boxes and expansions a few months back when they were 50 percent off. Maybe I shoulda waited.

Oberlindes Sol LIC28 Feb 2018 11:22 a.m. PST

"Tooling is the engineering and making of the molds. The hard plastic used in Wave One was chosen to preserve the detail and crispness of the game pieces. Using that material requires expensive metal molds. Moreover, the plastic and the molds do not allow for undercuts, requiring the manufacturer to break the miniatures down into many, many pieces in order to manufacture them. Hence, the many parts required to build the miniatures.

"The high cost of tooling/molds – $75,000 USD for what would become just the Wave One rewards – was unexpected. And that was in addition to the nearly $21,000 USD for the 3D file corrections and prototypes by the manufacturer."

Why was the high cost of tooling unexpected? Surely everyone involved knew about the requirements for molding hard plastic very early in the process.

I don't use mecha in my games (although some of my powered armor suits are a little tall), but I may find some things that I can use. Thanks for posting this.

jtkimmel28 Feb 2018 12:04 p.m. PST

28mm Fanatik, there is a lot to the story regarding ND but from what they have said, they had setup the files to be used with the factory they selected. PB then told ND to hit the road and in order to save a few bucks, picked a different factory, which, surprise, surprise, used different files than what ND had setup.

ScottWashburn Sponsoring Member of TMP28 Feb 2018 12:44 p.m. PST

"In theory, by making and releasing the Wave One products to the retail market, we could sell enough of them to produce Wave Two rewards."

Wow, where have I heard that before? Seems to be the standard response to the realization that the kickstarter was hopelessly off the rails.

Ghostrunner28 Feb 2018 12:51 p.m. PST

"In theory, by making and releasing the Wave One products to the retail market, we could sell enough of them to produce Wave Two rewards."

Wow, where have I heard that before? Seems to be the standard response to the realization that the kickstarter was hopelessly off the rails

Or… the classic definition of a pyramid scheme.

28mm Fanatik28 Feb 2018 1:50 p.m. PST

"In theory, by making and releasing the Wave One products to the retail market, we could sell enough of them to produce Wave Two rewards."

Come to think of it, it's not unlike the "trickle down theory" in its unfounded optimism. It presupposes that anticipated demand in the market of their product will be more than enough to cover the expenses for future supply (waves) to make such rosy promises possible. Business propositions based on such naïveté have been shot down on "Shark Tank" on a routine basis.

Personal logo StoneMtnMinis Supporting Member of TMP28 Feb 2018 4:33 p.m. PST

Actually, it has nothing to do with "trickle down" economics. It was correctly described as either a ponzi scheme or pure stupidity. Take your choice.

Dynaman878928 Feb 2018 4:43 p.m. PST

> Actually, it has nothing to do with "trickle down" economics. It was correctly described as either a ponzi scheme or pure stupidity.

Sounds synonymous to me.

28mm Fanatik28 Feb 2018 4:49 p.m. PST

it has nothing to do with "trickle down" economics

Then let me spell it out for you. In Trickle Down Theory, it is presupposed that certain people (or classes of people) will consume and stimulate the economy, thereby creating jobs and benefit other people economically. Such optimism is just as unsupported as the presuppositions behind this Kickstarter.

Karnophage28 Feb 2018 5:10 p.m. PST

The real problem was the models were such a pain in the arse to put together that hardly anyone wanted to take the time. If the miniatures were a bit more simpler to assemble they would have had better sales. The game was doomed from the start.

Ghostrunner28 Feb 2018 5:15 p.m. PST

That and the fact that there were suspicions early on that PB was desperate to get the game out to retailers (before they had fulfilled the KS), and was burning thru the cash they needed to complete the 'Wave 2' of the KS that had already been sold to the supporters.

I think a lot of people wanted to wait and see if Wave 2 ever happened before buying into 'half a game'.

I guess I didn't mind the fiddly models, but it no doubt did limit sales.

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP28 Feb 2018 5:22 p.m. PST

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP
18 Apr 2013 5:14 p.m. PST
I so want to believe this, but the Palladium part makes me wary.

GypsyComet01 Mar 2018 1:00 a.m. PST

There are days when I hate being right. This is one of them.

GypsyComet
19 Apr 2013 8:09 a.m. PST
Palladium's name is front and center on the Kickstarter, so I'm out.

SITZKRIEG Inactive Member01 Mar 2018 8:44 a.m. PST

The common thought that has been espoused by backers is that Palladium ran out of money because they paid for most if not all the retail copies with backer funds instead of adding in their own money that should have been earmarked for wave 2 costs. They were cash strapped before (unable to reprint many of their own long out of stock books) and they've got empty pockets now… but right after the kickstarter were able to order thousands of extra retail copies of wave one product right alongside backer rewards. When they didn't sell big at retail, all the backer funded capital was locked up in dead stock sitting in their warehouse. If true, this is a case of a poorly led company gambling with backer provided money and losing.

28mm Fanatik01 Mar 2018 8:45 a.m. PST

Stay away from KS's from the 2 P's, Palladium and Prodos. Easy to remember.

Ghostrunner01 Mar 2018 9:02 a.m. PST

Sitzkrieg – Kevin basically admitted as much in his KS update.

28mm Fanatik01 Mar 2018 9:08 a.m. PST

but right after the kickstarter were able to order thousands of extra retail copies of wave one product right alongside backer rewards. When they didn't sell big at retail, all the backer funded capital was locked up in dead stock sitting in their warehouse. If true, this is a case of a poorly led company gambling with backer provided money and losing.

Exactly. Palladium grossly overestimated demand by flooding the stores with their Wave One product. When they didn't sell as hoped, they ran out of money and couldn't finance Wave Two. The fact that the Wave One product exceeded cost due to the tooling issue only exacerbated the mess.

Though I was really tempted to back the KS at the time, I'm glad I held back.

Hopefully this can serve as a cautionary lesson for future Kickstarters. Plan strategically and anticipate potential roadblocks (e.g. tooling incompatibility). Build a cash reserve from KS funds instead of sinking most of it in one roll of the dice. Avoid being too optimistic that your product will sell as well as you think. Be conservative.

Dynaman878901 Mar 2018 10:44 a.m. PST

None of that will actually happen unless there is punishment for Palladium. Otherwise the lesson is go ahead and splurge without ramifications.

Personal logo Patrick R Supporting Member of TMP01 Mar 2018 1:55 p.m. PST

Siembieda is a clear example that a reasonably smart guy with some amount of talent can get very far, but you have to know your limits.

Darkest Star Games Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Mar 2018 2:52 p.m. PST

I got sucked in due to my friends excitement. We all teamed up. I kept hoping Wave 2 would come out, but… The least they could do is release STL files of the minis not produced, that way those who did keep hoping can get something more than just more Wave 1 stuff. I want my Fighter POds and Female Power Armor!!!

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP01 Mar 2018 3:11 p.m. PST

The least they could do is release STL files of the minis not produced, that way those who did keep hoping can get something more than just more Wave 1 stuff. I want my Fighter POds and Female Power Armor!!!

Won't happen but it would be really cool.

Exactly. Palladium grossly overestimated demand by flooding the stores with their Wave One product.

Even in 2013, (some) people recognized that, for boardgames, Kickstarter is a platform for funding a product run, not for financing a company. You will reach the majority of the interested market during its run, not through subsequent retail sales.

Again, as GypsyComet said above, hate to be right, but saw it coming.

Dynaman878901 Mar 2018 3:45 p.m. PST

Releasing the STL files is not going to happen, they only had rights to use the designs and giving away STL files HAS to go beyond what they are allowed to do – or the license holder is an idiot.

billthecat01 Mar 2018 7:05 p.m. PST

Just FYI: assembling the models is a royal pin in the ass… not worth it at all unless you are some sort of die-hard Robotech fanatic, and then probably only for display.

Dynaman878901 Mar 2018 7:12 p.m. PST

Yup – the pain in the arse of putting the models together is probably what killed it, the final assembly pictures I saw were pretty darn good. (not the preview ones which had horrible gaps between pieces)

Personal logo miniMo Supporting Member of TMP04 Mar 2018 11:56 p.m. PST

I looked at them last year and decided to pass. Only some of them were BattleTech compatible size and the assembly just looked insane.

Spudeus05 Mar 2018 1:57 p.m. PST

Huh, seems like All Quiet on the Martian Front. . . times infinity. Glad I passed!

Louie N Supporting Member of TMP08 Mar 2018 3:12 p.m. PST

I am curious sense I did not follow this Kickstarter

What models were in wave 2 that never got released?

Ghostrunner09 Mar 2018 8:06 a.m. PST

All the Zentradi infantry, their elite battlesuits, and their fighters.

Mad Mecha Guy Sponsoring Member of TMP11 Mar 2018 9:10 a.m. PST

You might want to listen to these videos.

YouTube link

Harmony gold could to lose rights to Robotech in 14/03/2021.

Lion in the Stars12 Mar 2018 9:54 a.m. PST

It's pretty sad, but I think the biggest problem is that Palladium never thought that all the people who wanted to play the game would back the KS. So when they spent a lot of money on Wave 1 stuff for retailers, it wasn't going to move very well because everyone who wanted to play already had all the stuff they wanted.

I backed the KS to a very large chunk of change, and am really pissed because the game does not play well with just Wave 1. The Zents really need the Gnerl fighters (and the heavy power armor wouldn't hurt).

I am not surprised that Harmony Gold yanked the license over this. I was warning Palladium about this more than 2 years ago, that they needed to lock down a production decision on Wave 2 and get it out.

The RRT KS delays killed the Rifts boardgame, and damn near killed the creator of said boardgame!


@Darkest Star Games: check out the Robotech RPG Tactics (unofficial) FB group, most of the guys there have found sources for everything for the Macross Saga. Mostly various shapeways folks, IIRC. It is a closed group, so you will have to request permission to join.

I found the assembly of the models a bit tedious, but that's because I ended up with about 2 complete starter boxes worth of stuff, plus all the Destroids. Once assembled, they're solid. The only problem I had was how close the parts were to the sprue. The chin guns on my Glaug/Marauders all broke in the process of removing them from the sprues.

The Epic Gamer12 Mar 2018 11:08 a.m. PST

@Lion – the problem you describe in your first paragraph isn't unique to Palladium. CMoN did the same thing with Wrath of Kings.

Darkest Star Games Sponsoring Member of TMP12 Mar 2018 11:24 a.m. PST

Thanks Lion, I'll look there!

blackjack07113 Mar 2018 4:04 p.m. PST

I feel bad for the folks who – in good faith – put their hard-earned money into this.

Lfseeney Inactive Member14 Mar 2018 3:59 a.m. PST

Well CMON has no intention of building anything they just pump and dump, keep x amount of anything that sells well at KS to sell later on EBay.

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