"Rule sets for Begginners in 15 mm" Topic

Hi folks!
I'm relatively new to miniatures wargaming. I've started to play Flames of War, but I've catched the transition of the V3 to the V4 rules, which made me a lot of confusion, so I decided to move away.
I'm here to ask to the more experienced people, about the pros and cons of these game systems: Battlegroup; Disposable Heroes 2; Battlefront WWII; Rapid Fire; Command Decision ToB
I don't want to participate on tounaments, only want to introduce and play with my son.
I don't mean to start a war here on the forum about which is the best game! I'm only looking for a rule set easy to learn that handles on board artillery, air strikes in a simple maner, that plays well in 15 mm!
Thank you in advance!

Command Decision will probably be far too complex and nuanced.

Battlegroup treats air strikes as a random event. But it plays well in 15mm, is easy to grasp and would be my choice for a game with kids involved.

Although CD. is what I generally play, I agree it's not good as an introductory game. I"d start with Rapid Fire and move up to Command Decision if he really enjoys the period.

I still prefer FOW, but there are some others that work well, and are amenable to FOW-style basing:

Crossfire: The obvious one. Rules are very simple, very elegant, very, well, avant-garde. No sequence of play, no measuring. Only really covers infantry fights (though you can add tanks, etc.) Requires buckets of terrain. But has the shortest rules of any of these, and the reputation of more closely resembling real WWII combat than any other system.

Bolt Action: In the other direction, WWII gaming in the 40k style. Forces are smaller than FOW, and assume infantry based separately. But you can use casualty markers on FOW stands and it will work fine. Typical force is an infantry platoon, a few attached teams, a tank and an armored car or APC. Includes artillery and air. Uses a neat alternating-activation system pulling colored special dice out of a cup. Can use FOW without adjusting distances and everything will look more realistic in scale.

I'd second what Extra Cripsy posted above. CD is a bit much for a beginner. Battlegroup fits the bill for what your asking.

Crossfire.

Battlegroup. And you do not need a lot of troops and vehicles for the squad-sized game.

Pz8 or Panzer8. Either would do and are available free

I agree Crossfire is a good game, but in my experience kids like tanks! Battlegroup is a better game for having more than one tank on the table.

Bolt Action is fun. Note: you do not need to buy their ridiculously over priced "order dice." You can use tokens of two colors for your dice pull. But like Crossfire too many tanks spoils the game in my experience.

I think Flames of War (3rd Edition) is a good game. I made a better QRS which puts the stats right on the page so you don't have to look in the rule book all the time. It speeds up play quite a bit:

link

No matter what game you pick, keep your first scenarios simple. For example, if you have 3 German tanks, make them all the same and your son will remember their stats. Same for infantry: they should all be the same quality. Leaders should all be average, etc. That way your son will learn the rules. Then when you introduce a better leader, or a have two Panzer IV types, he'll already have the mechanics under his belt.

Another vote for CrossFire.

Battlefront:WW2

Excellent set, very clearly written. Details here
fireandfury.com

Yup. Crossfire.

I think the comments about Command Decision being too complex are nonsense. A gamer that can handle all of the rules in FOW, particularly V3 with all of its special rules and exceptions, is more than capable of learning to play Command Decision. The Command Decision rules make for satisfying games that feature all the toys, but also do a fine job of realistically dealing with command and control issues, as well as morale.

I will put in my vote for Rapid Fire. Its very subtitle tells you a lot. Rapid Fire!: Fast Play World War Two Wargame Rules. It is a simple but not simplistic set of rules. After playing a game you wont feel like you just took an accounting exam. One example is in tank vs tank or anti-tank vs tank there are only 5 modifiers to remember! The small arms/HE firing tables incorporate range and cover so you dont have to remember modifications for those!

All that being said I do believe a newer, 3rd edition is due out soon. Don't know if worth waiting for.

Of the games you mention Battle group would be suitable. But in your situation I'd stick with Flames of War, easy to pick up, readily available, kid friendly.

I would recommend Rapid Fire Rules. Hope it helps.

As always, comments are appreciated.

Take care

Andy

For quick & super simple try these:

PDF link

They are great for conventions.
I took them & David Brown's Panzer Grenadier rules & created my own 2 page set that I think is the best. e-mail me if you want a copy.

JPK

@Oldgrumbler, would love a copy of your rules, but how do we email you?

Thanks

Al

jpkellysr@gmail.com

Another quick ruleset is:

link

If you want something simple, try Gale Force 9's TANKS. More a beer and pretzel game than anything else.

PBI from Peter pig , this is a ,"Quick Start" is a VERY cut down PBI. It is intended for beginners and tasters

PDF link

Simple with a nice large battle feel- Rapid Fire.

Swimming against the tide I have been using Bolt Action in 15mm. I am using modules and marking on the back of each base what they are armed with. e.g. rifle, pistol, rifle, smg for a four figure base.

So far, so good.

Barry

Warspite, I also use 15mm for bolt action. More realistic scale it seems.

Flames of War has the bonuses of having their products packaged as units so you don't have to get bogged down in organisational research. I'm a V3 person, I think that was the best edition of rules.

I've recently tried Battlegroup and so far, so good. It's not difficult at all to learn and I'd say it's Rapid Fire done right.

On that note, I have to disagree with the earlier comment that Rapid Fire is simple but not simplistic. I think it is too simplistic. If you see it, you hit it and if you hit it, you kill it. Besides, it's not a company level game. It's more an operational battalion/brigade one with each figure representing a platoon.

I must disagree. It simply isnt true in Rapid Fire if you see it you hit it and if you hit it you kill it. You still must roll to hit, with modifiers, and a very good chance to miss. And, if you hit, you roll for damage. Your results may be a light hit, heavy hit or destroy.

An example a Sherman 75 engaging a Mk IV moving across an open field at normal range. Chance to destroy is 1 in 9 (1/3rd chance to hit times 1/3 chance to destroy). Chance to do ANY damage at all 1 in 3.

As too not being a company level game the original post didnt ask for that.

Definitely a vote for Battlegroup. Extremely satisfying and it plays great in 15mm.

I would also recommend Rapid Fire. For skirmish, Disposable Heroes is also a good starting point.

I've had too many disappointing games of Rapid Fire to think it's just gamers having an off night. I stand by my remarks earlier that it is way too simplistic.

Thats whats nice, plenty of rules so folks usually find at least one they like. Also appreciate when folks provide information on a set. Not everyone likes all rules. I don't care for Flames of War, just not my cup of tea, for example.