"Think the Bosnia Conflict Was a Civil War?" Topic
15 Posts
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Tango01 | 17 Feb 2018 9:49 p.m. PST |
"The conflict in Bosnia was more than a civil war. Bosnia-Herzegovina declared independence from the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia following a controversial referendum, and was recognized by the United States and Europe in April 1992 — and the United Nations a month later. Violent clashes had begun prior to recognition, and would erupt into a terrible war which would divide the three dominant communities in the country – Muslims, Serbs and Croats – and claim the lives of more than 100,000 people, while displacing two million more. The war baffled commentators and policymakers, many of whom justifiably knew little about the new state. Grasping to offer a narrative to a curious public, many public figures turned to a myth best exemplified by Robert Kaplan's Balkan Ghosts…." Main page link Amicalement Armand |
StoneMtnMinis | 17 Feb 2018 11:13 p.m. PST |
When you look deep enough you can find the clintons fingerprints on that mess. |
Legion 4 | 17 Feb 2018 11:29 p.m. PST |
the three dominant communities in the country – Muslims, Serbs and Croats What could possibly go wrong ?!? |
goragrad | 18 Feb 2018 12:33 a.m. PST |
With 2/3 of the population Muslims were going to dominate the government in a 'democratic' Bosnia. Why would Catholic Croats and Orthodox Serbs want to be a part of that? If self-determination was the name of the game in Bosnia splitting from the Republic of Yugoslavia, then the minority communities in Bosnia were just doing the same in seeking to slit away. Insofar as the US aid to the Bosnian Muslims, it was pure and simple an attempt to curry favor with the Muslim World. We see how that worked. Genocide had very little to do with it as shown by the Clinton Administration's reaction to Rwanda – crickets… |
Legion 4 | 18 Feb 2018 12:49 a.m. PST |
With 2/3 of the population Muslims were going to dominate the government in a 'democratic' Bosnia. Why would Catholic Croats and Orthodox Serbs want to be a part of that? Again … what could possibly go wrong !? |
Stosstruppen | 18 Feb 2018 6:36 a.m. PST |
When nations are constructs of politicians or other nations, why are we so surprised when the disparate people's they have put together do not get along? Happens quite frequently in Africa. |
Lion in the Stars | 18 Feb 2018 7:41 a.m. PST |
Doesn't help that the area had grudges left over from the Ottoman Empire, either. Ottoman Empire of the 1600s, at that! |
rvandusen | 18 Feb 2018 8:49 a.m. PST |
"With 2/3 of the population Muslims were going to dominate the government in a 'democratic' Bosnia. Why would Catholic Croats and Orthodox Serbs want to be a part of that?" I thought diversity was a strength. Not only grudges left over from the Ottomans, but also the Hapsburgs. The Balkans were an volatile ethnic mix held together by increasingly tottering monarchies. Yugoslavia was taped together at Versailles, making several of these distinct peoples vassals of the King of Serbia/Yugoslavia, but WW2 intervened and they ended up under Tito's communist state. During the late 90's while I was in college and working on a project regarding the breakup of Yugoslavia, I came across interesting surveys conducted by the Yugoslav authorities to discern the mood in the various republics during the 70s and 80s. These surveys foreshadowed the breakup and subsequent civil wars. |
USAFpilot | 18 Feb 2018 10:13 a.m. PST |
and was recognized by the United States and Europe in April 1992 and that was a huge mistake. We had no business interfering in the internal political affairs of Yugoslavia. In the end we did more harm than good, by first recognizing breakaway republics and then imposing an arms embargo on them; and then finally providing some assistance when it was already too late. |
Legion 4 | 18 Feb 2018 11:32 a.m. PST |
When nations are constructs of politicians or other nations, why are we so surprised when the disparate people's they have put together do not get along? Happens quite frequently in Africa. So very true … As was pointed out. That region that was eventually called Yugoslavia, was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire before WWI. Which as we know much of that Empire was divided up by the "victors", or whoever(?). We see the same occurrence with many long dead Euro politicians dividing up The Ottoman Turk Empire. Much of which was in the Mid East. E.g. Iraq was created, with little to any consideration to religion and ethnicity, etc. And so that, what appears to be a poorly thought out geo-political decision haunts the West to this day. And as we see a similar situation continues in the nations/regions of the former Yugoslavia. And yes, the same has occurs(ed) in places in Africa as well. Things that happen in those regions and some others, e.g. A'stan, keep the words genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes and ethnic cleansing in the headlines far too frequently today. I thought diversity was a strength. In those nations and regions, etc., … not so much. In some cases it's a death sentence … Doesn't help that the area had grudges left over from the Ottoman Empire, either. Ottoman Empire of the 1600s, at that! In some regions/nations they are still upset about what happened in the 10th, 11th, 12th, etc., Centuries, e.g. the Crusades … It may be just me … but I think they would have gotten over it by now. However, in many cases those nations are failed or failing states, under a dictatorship, corrupt officials, etc., etc. So I guess they have to find someone to blame ? Even with the West sending billions in aid of all forms. And has been doing it for a very, very, long time. I guess you can try to teach someone how to fish for only so long ? Is there a definite number of years for what is considered an "emerging" nation or economy ? |
New Jersey Devil | 18 Feb 2018 7:35 p.m. PST |
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Legion 4 | 19 Feb 2018 9:08 a.m. PST |
All [or most?] religions make that same statement at one time or another … |
goragrad | 19 Feb 2018 9:33 p.m. PST |
But most other religions don't still consider conversion by the sword to be acceptable anymore. |
Legion 4 | 20 Feb 2018 8:41 a.m. PST |
So very, very, true … But some still don't seem to want to understand that … But let's be careful, talking religion here, especially certain ones can get you labelled as many negative things and get you DH'd or more … Regardless all members of most if not all religions Don't believe putting to the sword anyone who believes differently than they do … Again the vast majority Don't believe in conversion by force … as some terrorists, etc., do today. But that is a very small vocal reactionary minority/lunatic fringe. Far from Mainstream … If anything the West is becoming much more secular and overall less religious it appears. It seems to me … For better or worse … So again … |
Jcfrog | 20 Feb 2018 10:27 a.m. PST |
The whole thing was a misshandled mess, strongly influenced by our friends ( and their clients) who are not so much our friends. In the end we supported some kind of mix which nowadays is a nearly nice European base ( with Kossovo, same bleep- see I save the work of the moderators) for wahabites++. Where do you think all those aks in our suburbs came from? Cz? The Christian Serbs were pushed away, they who never messed with us (don't bring in the black hand of 1914) nor will, for dubious unkwowns at best. A lot of the French officers who went there got rightly BLEEP off by what they saw, what they had to swallow and felt, to put it mildly, the whole thing put us on the wrong side. No one there was or behaved like a saint, often tit for tat the old Balkan way, nothing nice, but Mediterranean history and Ottoman occupation usual ways to war. Centuries of it. |
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