"Hundreds Cuban Tank Crews Took Part In 1973 Arab Israel War" Topic

Well, isn't that interesting!

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It sure explains a lot.

Dan

I liked this part of the article: "The famous revolutionary was interrogated and then promptly executed. It was the end of Che,"

When I see someone wearing a Che t-shirt, I can't help but think 'what an idiot'.

Lol. I think the exact same thing when I see those mass-produced "designer" (Che-ching!) shirts!

Dan

I knew about Cuito Cuanavale and Ogaden, but not about the Yom Kippur War nor Congo. Bolivia I thought it was Che's idea, that Castro didn't support but which found handy to get rid of Guevara, whose behaviour was becoming more erratic with each passing day. Some claim that it was Castro who betrayed Guevara, passing information about his wherabouts through back channels to the CIA. Although it isn't beyond the realm of possibility -Castro was ruthless- I think it is simple conspiranoia and that Castro was perfectly happy with the situation in Bolivia as it was, i.e. Guevara far from Cuba and making a nuisance of himself for the US. It was a win-win scenario; no need to betray Guevara.

Yes, Cuba being big time allies with the USSR and the USSR supplying many of the Arab nations fighting Israel. Well you know the rest. And I did hear of those other nations supporting the Arabs in '73 against the IDF. But as usual for a variety of reasons, the IDF won … again …

It has been said, that US SF either helped or actually killed of Che'. Either way it was a good thing. And yes, every time I see someone especially in the US wearing a Che' T-shirt … I think he or she is an absolute idiot, moron, etc., etc., too

Castro supporters who were also anti-Israel, imagine that! :)

Dan

Either way it was a good thing.

Indeed. He was a murderous bastard. I knew a Cuban exile, living here, in Madrid. She had a brother, 14 years old, when the Revolution. Her brother was arrested, accused of delivering counter-revolutionary propaganda. The kid was carried to a pier in La Habana and killed. He had the dubious "honor" of being shot by Guevara himself. She, who was 13 at the time, was luckier. Arrested together with her brother, she was "only" raped by several policemen and released after a few days in jail. Luckily for her and her family, her father managed to get a visa for travelling to Spain and never came back. She hated with passion and I wouldn't be the one to blame her (she had an epic shouting match with my mother-in-law, who being a leftist accused her of exaggerating the tale)

Basileus66: "she had an epic shouting match with my mother-in-law, who being a leftist accused her of exaggerating the tale"

Wow, that sounds a lot like some of my Mom's crazy family reunions when I was little, until my Grandma finally put her foot down and banned all such discussions once and for all.

Dan

He was a murderous bastard.

From everything I read that was very true.

And yes, every time I see someone especially in the US wearing a Che' T-shirt … I think he or she is an absolute idiot, moron, etc., etc., too

Taking that waaaaaay too seriously. The days of Che's image being a political statement died decades ago. Now he's just another fashion meme; like Hello Kitty. And just as relevant. Oh, there are probably some old fart Socialist types who still cling to it (and the notion of the "coming revolution". That train left the station years ago and the tracks have been pulled up and the station pulled down). That, and old grumpy white guys living in the past….

Having his image become so irrelevant and trivial might be the ultimate put down…

(And yes, he was a right despicable bastard who got what he deserved. But not soon enough.)

Cuba supplying troops to USSR allies is no big news. After throwing a gazillion bucks down Castro's rathole (it was the only thing keeping Cuba afloat), they had to get SOME kind of return on their investment.

There's obviously still some disagreement on what is irrelevant and what isn't. And about what should be taken seriously.

Believe it or not, that's actually a good thing.

Dan

Just ask that 20 something who the person on their t-shirt is; odds are very good they won't know or care.

You can't get more irrelevant than that…

It's relevant to the ones who have to see the stupid shirt, and it's relevant to the professors who lobotomized the idiots wearing them.

Dan
PS. Go ahead and get a "Che is dead, get over it" t-shirt and test how irrelevant he is.

I can excuse a teenager for not knowing whose image is on their T-shirt, but a 20 something should know.

Cacique Caribe is spot on with his comments.

Just ask that 20 something who the person on their t-shirt is; odds are very good they won't know or care.

It really depends on where you live. Where I live, it's not just the twenty-somethings. He's loved by many of the same people who have rose-tinted glasses about what's going on in Venezuela right now.

Che is irrelevant? Maybe. Yet whatever you think of him I'll wager he is remembered long after we're all gone and forgotten. And someone will still be wearing the T-shirts.

Eumerin

What are you talking about, man? There's plenty of dancing and merriment going on in Venezuela. On tv, of course. :)

Dan
PS. It reminds me a little of these parody Cold War posters, from a museum in Prague:

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Love the posters!

(And yes, he was a right despicable bastard who got what he deserved. But not soon enough.)

Cuba supplying troops to USSR allies is no big news. After throwing a gazillion bucks down Castro's rathole (it was the only thing keeping Cuba afloat), they had to get SOME kind of return on their investment.

Yes, and it close to the US mainland … that still may have some use to Russia. As it did in the '60, etc.

Just ask that 20 something who the person on their t-shirt is; odds are very good they won't know or care.

Yes, but as noted I'd think it depends on what country you are talking about. Many/most in the US, especially the young have no idea who Che' was and what he stood for, etc. But I bet if in the USA you wore a T-shirt with e.g. Jefferson on it. Many would not know who that is a likeness of. And some that do will only know he was a slave owner. Regardless what he did otherwise.

Whether if Che' is irrelevant or not, yes to some he is. But look what is happening to statues about the ACW, Columbus, etc. And those "events" happened long before Che'. I think the whole concept what is relevant and not is in the eye of the beholder. *[lets' not get into the debate about ACW statues, etc. that has already been beaten to death on another thread here. I'm just mentioning that for the sake of an example, etc.]

For interesting reading on Cuban shenanigans in Angola, 1975-76 this is worth picking up
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And therein lies the rub legion4 – how many of the people in Che shirts are also protesting anything do do with the Confederacy???

And yes,those are great posters.

Che – the Legend lives, even at West Point.

(Airborne, CIB. A combat vet! Thank you for your service!)

And therein lies the rub legion4 – how many of the people in Che shirts are also protesting anything do do with the Confederacy???

Good point … I don't know, I was not there or saw any in the media ? You ? I don't see it mentioned any where here either – TMP link

But as I said in that post above – "[lets' not get into the debate about ACW statues, etc. that has already been beaten to death on another thread here. I'm just mentioning that for the sake of an example, etc.]" …

That, and old grumpy white guys living in the past….

Sadly that may describe me, as well as some others here … I'm a bit/very old school. If I was around when fire was discovered … I would have probably voted, "NO" …

Hey Look !!!! A poster of Che' !!!! TMP link

Good one Bergmot ! LOL ! Yes, I'm sure that was obviously meant to be humorous. I've seen Micky Mouse, Batman, etc. t-shirts, etc., as well in similar situations. As you and I know many Grunts, Tankers, etc., have a "unique" sense humor at times. This is a clear example, me thinks …

I don't doubt that, this very well decorated West Pointer, like many of his brethren. Had studied and is well aware about Che', COIN, etc. But I'm no West Pointer… so …

E.g. … My one buddy, a West Point Grad, made all his training jumps at Benning with a teddy bear under his field jacket. After the required 5 jumps both he and the teddy bear, named "Airborne Teddy", were awarded their wings. Don't know what T-shirt he was wearing. Teddy was "naked", like most bears, I'd think …

Yep. If you can put on a "Che Is Dead, Get Over It!" t-shirt*, and can walk from one end of campus to the other without being confronted by angry students or professors, then you can say he's no longer relevant. :)

Dan
* Or a "Dead And Deader" shirt:
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LOVE IT !!!! LOL !!!!

Here's another option a buddy sent me …

My whole point about the CSA statues, Jefferson, etc., I guess I didn't explain it well enough for everyone to understand. I'm not that bright anyway.

Historical persons, of all types/ilk, etc. whether on a t-shirt, a statue, picture, etc., etc., will mean different things to different people. Based on country, locations in a country, i.e. North – South, East – West, etc., e.g. : the USA, the Koreas, Germany(at one time), Vietnam, etc.

Add ethnicity, religion, clan or tribal affiliations, e.g. in the Mid East, Africa, A'stan, etc., etc.

And as I always post here, your average denizen of the USA, knows so very little about any history, let alone world history. Their outlook is colored by bias, etc., if they have any idea who or what the historical person is. As we see with Che', the CSA statue "controversy(?)", the Founding Fathers, etc.

And as we all know here having an interest in history. There are the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly as thru out history. And much of those monikers is based on who you are and where you are from, etc., …

>Che – the Legend lives, even at West Point.

>(Airborne, CIB. A combat vet! Thank you for your service!)

Nope. That individual is a real POS. He's currently under investigation by the Army.

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WOW !!!! Just WOW !!!! I had no idea things were that way at West Point. Based on all I experienced with other Officers I served along that were West Point, '79-'90[to be clear I was ROTC]. I could only imagine that this "cadet" with the Che' t-shirt was just goofing around, etc. Many of my West Point friends had a very good sense of humor.

All the West Point Officers I served with were pretty much the "standard" which one would expect. They were all pretty damn good, and not arrogant, snobbish, etc. As I said, I had many friends who were West Pointers. They we very good officers and we all were a "Band of Brothers" so to, at IOBC, in the 101, etc., etc. I had served with 4 Infantry Bns, so I knew and served with a lot of officers.

Sad to hear such things have decayed to the point described in that article. If it is in fact true ? And after reading it, I have little doubt of the officer's veracity who wrote it.

Sad … very sad … AFAIK we had no officer, West Point or otherwise like this Rapone. He would never have got into the Army, let alone West Point, IMO.

More evidence that Cuba is the biggest country in the world…..nurseries in one hemisphere and graveyards in another……

It's an old story – exporting soldiers when you can't export much else. I remember some excellent Gordon Dickson Sci Fi on the subject ('Soldier, Ask Not' etc). The troops were a cross between Scottish Covenanters and the Cubans.

It's been a fallback of small nations since time began – Balearic Slingers, Swiss Guard, etc, etc. In this case US sanctions made it impossible to earn a buck legally, so….

The ideological part was clearly a big factor to start with, but it must of been hell for those sent time and again to different hot-spots where they didn't really have any 'skin in the game' at all.