Help support TMP


"Move all Flea Market sessions to after dinner........" Topic


37 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Conventions and Wargame Shows Message Board



1,432 hits since 25 Jan 2018
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Rangers Lead the Way25 Jan 2018 10:13 p.m. PST

Game all day in between games go to dealer hall at your leisure, eat dinner, go to flea market, socialize and take in an evening game. Night time flea market not such a bad idea.

GypsyComet25 Jan 2018 10:29 p.m. PST

One of the local cons does Midnight Madness fleas.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP26 Jan 2018 3:53 a.m. PST

"All"?
Certainly not.
I see no need to change the way things have always been done just to accommodate you. And only you.

pzivh43 Supporting Member of TMP26 Jan 2018 4:14 a.m. PST

Nope. Midnight madness is OK, but dealers need to quit carping and deal with flea market

ZULUPAUL Supporting Member of TMP26 Jan 2018 4:14 a.m. PST

Nope, I usually run a table at the flea market & I sell most before noon.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP26 Jan 2018 4:54 a.m. PST

At that point, I would stop attending.

No interest in confining the gaming or the dealers to evenings, I take it? Just the flea market. If GMs and dealers see the flea market as a threat, they might consider changing some of their own practices.

general btsherman26 Jan 2018 5:32 a.m. PST

Bad idea. Sorry

TodCreasey Supporting Member of TMP26 Jan 2018 6:11 a.m. PST

What about the day trippers? If you are 2-3 hours away that means hanging about til 9PM and getting home at midnight.

chuck05 Supporting Member of TMP Fezian26 Jan 2018 6:12 a.m. PST

Maybe having some deals in the dealer hall would help?

Dynaman878926 Jan 2018 8:07 a.m. PST

NO terrible idea.

But I have a counter proposal, make the dealer hall after dinner only instead. Matter of fact, any of these "flea market should" proposals (the real ones, not the joke flamebait this one is intended to be) should always be thought of as applying to the dealer hall instead and if it sounds like a lousy idea for the dealer hall than it is most likely a lousy idea for the flea market too.

Long Valley Gamer Supporting Member of TMP26 Jan 2018 8:18 a.m. PST

Agree,bad idea

Stepman326 Jan 2018 8:48 a.m. PST

I think people put to much emphasis on the flee market…Its not like its not the same people selling the same stuff show after show. Occasionally there are a few new gems that pop up but I've seen the same Tau Army for the last 5 shows, the same obscure strategy games being offered time and time again…If the time slots work for you great, if not, well then catch the next one…

TSD10126 Jan 2018 10:00 a.m. PST

but I've seen the same Tau Army for the last 5 shows, the same obscure strategy games being offered time and time again

None of this would have been a problem if HMGS enforced its own Flea Market rules and cracked down on the people selling 3 tables worth of shrink wrapped games for all sessions every convention, or the same people selling the same stuff for years on end.

Wackmole9 Supporting Member of TMP26 Jan 2018 11:20 a.m. PST

I say Just get rid of the flea market and games. We Are at a HMGS NE Convention to do are duty and buy stuff in the Dealers hall only. .

But Really Most flea market money just goes right into the dealers hall. Late night is ok but won't work for everyday.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP26 Jan 2018 11:22 a.m. PST

"Its not like its not the same people selling the same stuff show after show."

Stepman, are you sure you're not discussing the dealers' hall?

Can't speak for the other flea marketeers, but my rule is "nine crates enter; two crates leave." Those two crates get one more chance. If no one offers money in two conventions, the stuff is pitched.

dapeters26 Jan 2018 1:47 p.m. PST

Well It's both.

But ditching the day Flea market serves no good

Yellow Admiral Supporting Member of TMP26 Jan 2018 6:43 p.m. PST

I hate night time flea markets. Big NO, bad idea.

zoneofcontrol26 Jan 2018 7:07 p.m. PST

I think that the dealer hall should be open for one hour at a time starting on every even numbered hour. The flea market should be open for one hour at a time starting on every odd numbered hour. Historic games could start on every half-hour interval but would be strictly limited to 1 hour total including set-up, game play and tear-down. Non-Historic games would be limited to odd-numbered calendar days.

Otherwise, nobody should go.

Personal logo Flashman14 Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2018 5:01 a.m. PST

No

Dynaman878927 Jan 2018 12:49 p.m. PST

zoneofcontrol +1

rmcaras Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2018 4:41 p.m. PST

Zoneofcontrol, that certainly give the attendees a good aerobic workout as we rushed? (Waddled for some of us, like me) between locations!

Personal logo capncarp Supporting Member of TMP28 Jan 2018 12:20 a.m. PST

Zoneofcontrol, you've run a lot of "Paranoia" games, haven't you?

Sheckk28 Jan 2018 1:42 p.m. PST

Please no.

jpipes06 Feb 2018 1:13 p.m. PST

So far the evening flea markets have been less well attended, but whatever they are I will be there. I sure hope they don't move them all to late night as I think that would cause a lot of people to stop coming to the show entirely. Day trippers don't want to leave at midnight to drive home. As for people selling three tables of shrink stuff? I rarely see that anymore so not sure what that is referring to. The same Tau army at 5 shows? Again haven't seen that but even if it was, who cares? What does it matter to you if someone wants to keep trying to sell their army? It's none of your business especially if you don't want to buy it. If you do haggle with them or keep walking. Bitching about it here doesn't do any good. The vast majority of the flea market tends to be good deals on used/oop/hard to find stuff. I see very little cross over from stuff the dealers are selling and a huge amount of the money made in the flea market goes directly back to the dealer and to help allow guys to afford going to the show in the first place. To say nothing about the many thousands of dollars that goes to HMGS for the right to sell in the first place.

Poniatowski Supporting Member of TMP23 Feb 2018 6:48 a.m. PST

Fall In! 2018 will be run the same as Fall In! 2017 as far as the flea market is concerned. I think it was very successful. AND.. it has much potential to grow. The only thing not cast in stone is the actual TIME for the Midnight Madness flea…

My only real fear is all 3 shows being in Lancaster…. I know it is a "one time thing"…. but I fear it will negatively impact Fall IN! attendance….

jpipes, well said sir. However, I do think the Midnight Madness still has potential, especially with the positive feedback… even from the vendors that were there.

Double G Sponsoring Member of TMP23 Feb 2018 5:35 p.m. PST

"I sure hope they don't move all to late night as I think that would cause a lot of people to stop coming to the show entirely."

Seriously?

The group that puts on these conventions is called HMGS, or Historical Miniature GAMING Society, the key word there is GAMING.

Their mission is to promote GAMING, and the majority of the attendees are there to GAME, not shop, which is why it's referred to as a GAMING convention, the main attraction is GAMING.

Are you honestly claiming the vast majority of the attendees come mainly to shop in the flea market?

What data do you have to back that claim up, I'd love to know how you came to that conclusion.

I'm all ears.

CoffeeCooler24 Feb 2018 6:24 a.m. PST

I've never found anything walking through the flea market. I noticed items of interest but nothing that I was looking for but I am a very picky buyer.

TSD10124 Feb 2018 12:43 p.m. PST

Seriously?

I think it would be a straw that broke the camel's back for some. A lot of people are already unhappy with HMGS and decisions made in the past.

Are you honestly claiming the vast majority of the attendees come mainly to shop in the flea market?

You're reading what you want to read and putting words in his mouth because that was nowhere stated in that post.

However, the line waiting for the Flea Market session to open is always 100+ people by the time the session rolls around.

I mean, its not like dealers constantly complained the Vendor Hall empties out at 2 PM because of the Flea Market and got the session moved in the first place.

Personal logo Milhouse Supporting Member of TMP24 Feb 2018 12:49 p.m. PST

Hey Double G, what if some of the dealers offered incentives to get people to stay Friday night? Like, oh I don't know, maybe free donuts Saturday in the dealer hall?

Double G Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Feb 2018 2:11 p.m. PST

"You're reading what you want to read and putting words in his mouth because that was nowhere stated in that post."

His comment was "I sure hope they don't move them all to late night as I think that would cause a lot of people to stop coming to the show entirely."

So tell me, how do you interpret that comment?

Moving the flea markets would be the final straw that broke the camels back for you then? The whole "You're mad as Hell and you're not going to take it anymore" way of thinking is it?

The flea market in your mind is that important to your overall convention experience then is it, or is it more a matter of you hate change and want things to be the way they've always been? As long as it works for you, it's all good then apparently.

Great that the line is over 100 people long; the line to get into the dealer hall on Thursday morning/Friday morning is usually five times that, I don't get what you are driving at.

You keep circling back to the dealers are the ones who got the Friday session moved even though it's been stated on this forum that is not the reason why.

So you accuse me of putting words in peoples mouths, yet you keep circling back to a position that is simply not true.

Keep moving the goal posts to prove your point, that's always a good strategy.

TSD10124 Feb 2018 2:54 p.m. PST

So tell me, how do you interpret that comment?

I think you're the one moving goal posts, changing "a lot" to "vast majority"

Moving the flea markets would be the final straw that broke the camels back for you then? The whole "You're mad as Hell and you're not going to take it anymore" way of thinking is it?

For me? No. For some? I think yes.

The flea market in your mind is that important to your overall convention experience then is it, or is it more a matter of you hate change and want things to be the way they've always been? As long as it works for you, it's all good then apparently.

The Flea Market is kind of like treasure hunting, you never know what people are going to bring. I've found some real gems there over the years. And it obviously worked for quite a few people, going by the lack of empty tables during Friday's afternoon session.

Great that the line is over 100 people long; the line to get into the dealer hall on Thursday morning/Friday morning is usually five times that, I don't get what you are driving at.

Awesome, we can stop hearing grumblings that the Dealer Hall clears out during Flea Market sessions then right?

You keep circling back to the dealers are the ones who got the Friday session moved even though it's been stated on this forum that is not the reason why.

I don't believe them.

sgibson24 Feb 2018 8:57 p.m. PST

"I sure hope they don't move all to late night as I think that would cause a lot of people to stop coming to the show entirely."

"Are you honestly claiming the vast majority of the attendees come mainly to shop in the flea market?"

I'm with TSD101. I am not happy with the removal of the Friday afternoon flea market. The flea market is the main reason I attend HMGS cons. At least three of my friends feel the same way. We are already not going to Historicon this year, in large part due to changes made by the convention directors.

I'm not sure what problem they were solving with the removal of the Friday afternoon session, and I also believe the move was made at the behest of the dealers (who were some of the most enthusiastic proponents of an evening flea market, at least on TMP).

Tumbleweed Supporting Member of TMP24 Feb 2018 10:51 p.m. PST

As a dealer, I don't feel threatened by the flea market. As a dealer, I have always felt that the complaints about losing sales to the flea market are just so much whining.

As a gamer and collector, I really like the flea market. A great way to find stuff for my personal collection!

But the late night flea market session makes it more difficult for me to personally visit it, so I will just go to the day session on Saturday and skip the Friday night session.

holien25 Feb 2018 12:27 a.m. PST

Wow the world's best (imo) tabletop gaming convention where you get to play and people won't go because of changes to the flea market…

:(

I only tend to get to see the market on Sunday as I am too busy stuffing in as much gaming as I can…

Having a session in the evening might appeal if I could ship anything back to UK with me…

I am looking forward to HCon this year in the new (old) location and hope the changes to the Host have improved it, especially the A/c to keep us all cool…

Personal logo Milhouse Supporting Member of TMP25 Feb 2018 12:00 p.m. PST

I guess no one liked my donut idea.

I just found out the Belle n Blade is not going to Cold Wars. In retail terms they are like an anchor tenant. And while the dealer hall is full, it has fewer vendors due to the space being reconfigured. Remember , the dealers subsidize the event. And are a draw to the attendees.

I know saving $4 USD on an out of production kit at the flea market is exciting. But moving the timing of just one session to accommodate other attendees is a lame reason not to go.

Double G Sponsoring Member of TMP25 Feb 2018 12:39 p.m. PST

That's ok Milhouse, the Haberdasher will be at the show peddling used DVD's, 5.00 each, 3 for 10.00 as part of that huge collection he bought when that WWII vet from NJ died last year, he'll more than make up for Belle and Blade not being at the show.

He must read the obituaries scouring for bargains like apartment hunters in NY do.

Nothing more enticing than buying used DVD's from a collection of someone who dropped dead coming down the stairs of his house.

Hey, a bargain is a bargain.

Poniatowski Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2018 5:53 a.m. PST

@TSD,

I have one quick question, could you please elaborate for me… and please not in a snarky way. I really want to know…

You said:
"A lot of people are already unhappy with HMGS and decisions made in the past."

I cannot say bury the past, but I am trying very hard to bring you guys the best show I can. The only fall down point I have is the amount I am willing to spend on guest speakers, etc…. I have been with HMGS for many, many years and I have found that no matter how much they spend and whomever they bring.. it is nice, sometimes great even, but it has NEVER gotten the organization a good enough ROI in attendance and memberships… notice I said MEMEBERSHIPS….. I do care about money (if we don't make any, we don't have shows), but to me growing the hobby is of the utmost importance….

I have watched the money spent for all shows and the attendance rates, even with a lot of paid advertising, we are a niche hobby and we grow more by word of mouth than any amount of advertising…. at least that is what I have seen. Others will say we advertise wrong or that I am just plain wrong, but numbers don't lie…. no amount of money spent has been justified for speakers on attendance ROI….

We will, of course continue to try to find and bring awesome speakers in, but I really don't see anyone traveling much to come see our "special guest"…. HMGS is NOT Origins, Gen-Con, etc…. We are a niche hobby and are not KNOWN for drawing large crowds just to see our special guest speakers.

OK… sorry for the lecture/observations…. In what ways has HMGS really disappointed folks other than to move a show around? Better yet, I do hate to hijack a thread… we can start another and lets keep it clean. Feedback is always good…. whether it is good or bad.

I definitely need to add, in all honesty… it wasn't the dealers that got the flea market session moved. The tail didn't wag the dog in this case, but the dog did chase the tail…. I wanted to verify the impact. It was my choice alone.. and it worked… and, as promised, I let the dealers sell in the midnight madness too.. and do you know what they drought? Mostly their own personal stuff or basically discount bin stuff they sold for a great price. It wasn't like they opened a store…. they do that all show in the vendor hall.

The issue of other dealers being in the vendor hall during the day shifts…. well, they weren't there for the "Midnight Madness" session.. too much stuff to move too many times in a day or that late at night I guess…. I think it was an awesome success and I believe that there will be more folks there this year at Fall In! 2018 as everyone there selling did very well (at least that is what they said)…. and as a buyer.. I found some great deals too!

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.