"Observations on Bolt Action from an old wargamer" Topic
56 Posts
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Northern Monkey | 24 Jan 2018 9:52 p.m. PST |
Then you're not just playing it wrong, you're playing it totally wrong and clearly not comprehending a key aspect of a game you are being openly critical of. Where you say that in DH each player selects certain points on the table, in CoC you have precisely the same thing but rather than just choosing the points, the patrol phase means you have to work to achieve seizing the ground you want to hold. Grabbing key points for defence with the best lines of fire or seizing the best jump-off points for an attack. It adds a totally new dimension to a game. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but one game designer openly being snarky about another (very successful) game does seem to smell more than a little bit of sour grapes. Somehow that seems compounded when his grasp of the system he is criticising appears to be limited at best, plain wrong at worst. |
Wolfhag | 24 Jan 2018 10:55 p.m. PST |
I recently watched the CoC patrol video. There is a fair amount of strategy and risk-reward decisions for the player in the patrol phase. If you are the attacker you can get a D6 number of free moves to move your markers up before the defender can start. You could move 6 markers one move (12") or any combination. That means you could move some markers well onto the board but would leave some behind and not able to support. (correct me if I got it wrong) You can also negate a jump off point so there are some strategies not present in other games. I've never played the game before but it would not be my first pick. I admit to being prejudiced to my own game. Give pizzagrenadier a break. We're all entitled to our opinion. DH is successful in its own right too. Wolfhag |
TacticalPainter01 | 25 Jan 2018 2:42 a.m. PST |
Though ultimately, you still end up with all of the units on the table once it is all said and done. That's a classic rookie play. The more experienced players are very good at holding back. There's nothing more unnerving as the attacker when the defender rolls his command dice and opts to deploy nothing. In my experience good players are very careful not to reveal their plans, carefully probing and threatening until they have established where the enemy is and how best to deal with them. That's a plausible historical outcome in my book. |
Pizzagrenadier | 25 Jan 2018 6:26 a.m. PST |
Northern Monkey, relax. I'm not being snarky. I've even praised the system and said it is a good game. I respect the authors and have said so. I have my criticisms of it (which are very minor) and I'm entitled to them. I never ran a game myself, but I've played in a bunch and every time, while the patrol phase moved the deployment points around and gave that fog of war experience, when the game itself got going the units were on the table or it was pretty apparent where the enemy was going to be. If that's doing it wrong, then it was by the GM in the games I've played in. It always made for a decent game. Sorry if I prefer my own design. I think I'm entitled to that too. It's not sour grapes and I've been a game designer for fifteen years, long enough to know there's room enough in this town for more than one successful system. CoC is a good game. Far better than Bolt Action. |
jdginaz | 25 Jan 2018 4:34 p.m. PST |
"If you are the attacker you can get a D6 number of free moves to move your markers up before the defender can start. You could move 6 markers one move (12") or any combination. That means you could move some markers well onto the board but would leave some behind and not able to support. (correct me if I got it wrong)" That's not quite right since the patrol marks have to remain within 12" of another marker. |
Wolfhag | 25 Jan 2018 6:27 p.m. PST |
jdginaz, Yes, kind of like a chain or leapfrogging. The video shows it more clearly. Wolfhag |
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