"US Infantry in Attack 2" Topic
14 Posts
All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.
Please avoid recent politics on the forums.
For more information, see the TMP FAQ.
Back to the ACW Discussion Message Board Back to the Plastic Figures Message Board
Areas of InterestGeneral American Civil War
Featured Hobby News Article
Featured Ruleset
Featured Showcase Article
Featured Profile ArticleMeet the winner of our recent contest.
Featured Book Review
|
Please sign in to your membership account, or, if you are not yet a member, please sign up for your free membership account.
Tango01 | 22 Jan 2018 10:59 a.m. PST |
Better tan Nb 1?
Review here. link Amicalement Armand
|
EJNashIII | 22 Jan 2018 7:44 p.m. PST |
The pose looks to be closer to parry in quarte, a defensive stance of the bayonet drill, than some made up attack.
Why don't figure developers bother to even try to research? |
EJNashIII | 22 Jan 2018 7:59 p.m. PST |
In an actual attack, the men move at port arms, then the front rank goes to charge bayonet at the point of contact with the enemy. In charge bayonet the blade point is at eye level, i.e to stick the blade in the defenders face and force them to retreat. You attack in this pose, arms port:
|
EJNashIII | 22 Jan 2018 8:10 p.m. PST |
here you can see a company "attacking"
|
EJNashIII | 22 Jan 2018 8:15 p.m. PST |
This is what they look like at the point they ram home the attack at contact with the enemy. The front rank changes from port arms to charge bayonet. Note the rear rank stays at port.
|
ScottWashburn | 23 Jan 2018 5:23 a.m. PST |
Well, not to open this can of worms again (but I will), the notion that the rear rank goes to some other position than charge bayonets (like the front rank) is a reenactorism and completely wrong. Both the front and rear rank go to charge bayonets. I have researched this in depth and no other conclusion makes sense. |
Tango01 | 23 Jan 2018 11:10 a.m. PST |
|
ScottWashburn | 23 Jan 2018 11:48 a.m. PST |
This is from Winfield Scott's manual and granted it is from 1835 and drawn for three ranks, nothing at all had changed in Hardee's or Casey's by the time of the ACW.
|
arthur1815 | 23 Jan 2018 3:04 p.m. PST |
Much smarter uniforms in 1835… |
EJNashIII | 24 Jan 2018 6:32 p.m. PST |
Scott, thanks for your input. Do you have the accompanying text for that plate? I'm looking at a 1830 Scott's and I can't find it. My knowledge of the rear rank staying at port arms is per D.J. Dal Bello of the Army of the Pacific, not a first hand source, so I concede might be faulty, there. My unit does formal bayonet drill quite often. However, research is what I'm pushing. Lets settle this, then. It is surprising that this important of a movement isn't that easy to find in the manuals. The charging position until contact of port arms is supported by Kelton's, 1862 Manual for the Bayonet. link And your picture does agree with me that the plastic miniatures pose is wrong. The bayonet is way too high. |
EJNashIII | 24 Jan 2018 6:41 p.m. PST |
|
ScottWashburn | 25 Jan 2018 5:42 a.m. PST |
The wording in Scott's manual is as follows: ************ 187. (First motion, PL. V.) Make a half face to the right on the left heel, bring the left toe to the front, place at the same time the right foot behind, and at right angles with, the left, the hollow of the right foot opposite to, and about three inches from the left heel; turn the piece with the left hand, the lock outwards, and seize the handle at the same time with the right hand, the musket perpendicular, and detached from the shoulder; leave the left hand under the butt. 188. (Second motion.) Bring down the piece with the right hand into the left, the latter seizing it a little in advance of the tail-band, the barrel up, the left elbow near the body, the right hand supported against the hip, the point of the bayonet at the height of the eye. The recruits of the centre and rear ranks will take care not to touch their file leaders with the points of their bayonets. ********* The last sentence makes it clear that the rear rank are doing the same thing as the front rank. As for the painting, if you zoom in on it you can see that BOTH the front and rear ranks are at port arms. If the colonel of the regiment ordered port arms, then the men should be at port arms. It's his decision. Find me a period painting with the front rank at charge bayonets and the rear rank at port arms. :) To me the situation is clear. The drill manuals in most common usage, the ones the officers would depend upon to learn their jobs and train their men, do NOT give any special instructions for the rear rank when at charge bayonets. That being the case, why should we think that the officers (ALL the officers) would decide to do such a thing on their own? |
Cleburne1863 | 25 Jan 2018 3:43 p.m. PST |
That last sentence is the clincher for me also. Do Hardee and Casey say anything different? |
ScottWashburn | 25 Jan 2018 5:24 p.m. PST |
I don't believe that Hardee or Casey make any specific reference to the rear rank at all. I'll have to check. |
|