jhancock | 14 Jan 2018 6:18 p.m. PST |
I am looking to purchase a used copy of the 1st Edition TSATF rules if anyone has a set to sell. Not looking for a "pirated" photocopy, but a used set published back in the day and obtained from the author or publisher. I want a copy for the old d6 firing/combat tables, as I have a personal preference for masses of d6 as opposed to d20. Please contact me if you have a used copy to sell. Thank you! Jeff Hancock |
Scum1234 | 14 Jan 2018 6:27 p.m. PST |
It wasn't masses of D6s. It was one D6 that told you the ratio of hits per number of shooters. Example: 20 figs shooting might under such and such conditions have a table result of: 1= 1/6 or 1 hit for every 6 firing figures 2-5= 1/5 6= 1/4 Or die rolls of 1 might be better, I don't remember. But it was one die rolled per firing unit. |
jhancock | 14 Jan 2018 6:29 p.m. PST |
Sounds even simpler. Now if I could just obtain a copy. Thank you, Scum! |
nnascati | 14 Jan 2018 7:33 p.m. PST |
Wow, it seems like its been so long since the 20th anniversary edition came out. I had forgotten all about the original. |
nnascati | 14 Jan 2018 7:38 p.m. PST |
I had to go and look. Nothing on ebay, and even googling it doesn't come up with the original version. Good luck with your search. |
Robert Burke | 14 Jan 2018 10:04 p.m. PST |
Why not get the 20th anniversary edition and then I'm sure some kind wargamer would be happy to send you copies of just the firing/combat tables from the 1st edition for your own personal use. |
Ceterman | 15 Jan 2018 7:01 a.m. PST |
I "think" I may have one, I'll have to look. If I do, it probably ain't in very good shape. Buy that I mean, well used. I'll look for ya when I get home after work. |
Hey You | 15 Jan 2018 9:06 a.m. PST |
My book is one of my prized possessions, but the staples are rusted that hold it together. I could not part with it. But I do have the inserts with the firing charts if you want a pdf of them. |
Ceterman | 15 Jan 2018 9:41 a.m. PST |
I agree with ya Hey You! I have the one I bought in 1979 also. I won't part with that one. (the staples are also rusted in that one!) But I think I have a 2nd copy of Version 1. If I find that one, I would sell it to someone who really wants it! Peter |
jhancock | 15 Jan 2018 9:42 a.m. PST |
I would gladly purchase and pay shipping for a tatty copy with the charts, Ceterman. While a PDF would be welcome, Hey You, I do not wish to deprive anyone of their intellectual property rights. I believe the material is Copyrighted. It would be nice if the owner of the intellectual property would allow or even provide a copy of the old 1st edition charts. Since the new edition still sells and many folks seem to prefer the new d20 charts, I doubt it will hurt sales! I plan to purchase a copy of the 40th edition when it comes out – perhaps the old charts can be in an appendix? Thank you all! Jeff |
Ceterman | 15 Jan 2018 10:00 a.m. PST |
Let me take a look when I get home Jeff. Yeah, MAN, 40th Ann Edition! Damn, TIME FLIES! I remember in 1998, at H-Con, I played a huge TSATF Zulu/Brit game with Larry as GM & he told me about the 20th Ann coming out the next year… I just can't believe it's been that long ago. RIP, Mr. Brom & THANK YOU for countless hours of fun. |
Dexter Ward | 15 Jan 2018 10:23 a.m. PST |
I used to have the Yaquinto 1st edition, but sold it years ago. The firing system was the main reason – it was just so dull. Very predictable. |
Hey You | 15 Jan 2018 1:35 p.m. PST |
No copyright infringement was intended. Using a pen and paper, or spreadsheet, you can approximate the old charts using these rules. The easiest method is to look at the weapon of choice at target class I (TCI). I have an old Parroom Station Sword and Red Sands on my desk at the moment, so: Earthmen Regular Rifle hits on a 1-7 of 20 at TCI. That works out to a 35% hit rate. I made a side chart for reference which lists all percentages of 1/2, 1/3, 1/4..1/10. I find the nearest percentage on that chart to be 33% at 1/3, so I decide that these Earthmen Rifles normally hit on 1/3 on a D6 thrown per firing unit. That would give me a least desirable choice of 1/4 and a top choice of 1/2. If my Earthmen Rifle unit fires then these would be the chances: TCI D6 of 1 equals 1 hit per 4 firing figures. D6 of 2-5 equals 1 hit per 3 firing figures. D6 of 6 equals 1 hit per 2 firing figures. You can just slide the numbers down for the other target classes as such: TCII D6 of 1 equals 1 hit per 5 firing figures. D6 of 2-5 equals 1 hit per 4 firing figures. D6 of 6 equals 1 hit per 3 firing figures. TCIII D6 of 1 equals 1 hit per 6 firing figures. D6 of 2-5 equals 1 hit per 5 firing figures. D6 of 6 equals 1 hit per 4 firing figures. TCIV D6 of 1 equals 1 hit per 7 firing figures. D6 of 2-5 equals 1 hit per 6 firing figures. D6 of 6 equals 1 hit per 5 firing figures. The above method will not give you the exact numbers in the old charts, but I think it will be close enough for you to evaluate the old d6 method. The old method allowed for one D6 thrown per firing unit. |
Winston Smith | 15 Jan 2018 1:55 p.m. PST |
The original firing system prevented Zulu riflemen from scoring any hits if their numbers fell to 2 figures. The "new" system where everyone firing rolls a D20 is far superior. |
Ceterman | 15 Jan 2018 4:25 p.m. PST |
Jeff, Okay, here's what I found. I only have 1 Original 1979 version, but, I have 2 versions of Revision One. One published in 1984, this is is the "most" used one I have and another Revision One, published in 1986, that is pretty much brand new. It's exactly the same as the 1984 version. The QRS are still stapled in the book. I compared the QRS sheets from the Original version & Revision One & they are identical as far as I can tell. (EXCEPT, I do see ONE thing, where under the Close Combat chart, the very first set says "All wounded fight at -2. The Revision One set omits that, as wounded can't fight at all & replaced the verbiage with "Zulus fighting across obstacles loose their +1 for charging & fight as On Top Of Wall"). I don't think wounded could ever fight except wounded natives on the ground can try & kill a Brit if the Brit ends his move within an inch of the wounded native. Then there would be a -2 applied to that roll. Successful or not, the Native would then die. The Firing Charts are definitely identical. I don't know exactly what changed between versions except the publisher. Let me know if you want the extra Revision One & we'll talk! It really is in great shape. Peter |
jhancock | 15 Jan 2018 6:33 p.m. PST |
Thanks, Hey You! I will PM you, Ceterman. Regards, Jeff |
Liliburlero | 16 Jan 2018 1:16 p.m. PST |
Ceterman said: "I don't know exactly what changed between versions except the publisher." Dad chose to ignore the 1984 and 1986 Revisions that were published by Greenfield so I would suggest sticking to the original 1979 version. |
Rhingyll | 17 Jan 2018 6:49 p.m. PST |
jhancock – I sent you a PM. |