"A question of manners – Zulu Dawn" Topic

I know it's just a movie, however…

In the scene where Lt Vereker is introduced to the mess of the 24th, he looks around the room and upon seeing Lord Chelmsford addresses him by his first name before acknowledging anyone else.

I have two questions:

1) Would that be considered normal behavior between two titled officers?
2) What about addressing your commanding office by his first name?

Vereker already knew Thesiger from before hostilities, so greeting a friend, as an equal, under the circumstances would not be "rude." It was also a way of acknowledging that he knew Thesiger was GOC, and a direct means to establish himself among the other Officers as more than a lowly civilian volunteer.

Remember, film scripts usually require dramatic moments/gestures to establish characters as well as exposition.

TVAG

Definitely not on old chap. It was more than rude it was demeaning the status of the G.O.C. and a violation of regulations. In fact Vereker's lack of protocol instead of elevating his status among the officers was likely to do the opposite.

It was up to Chelmsford and or the P.M.C./ C.O. to introduce Vereker to the officers and if appropriate the G.O.C could expand on their perosnal friendship. I do understand director's imperatives, however much they distort reality.

I'm sorry, what is GOC?

Utter tosh.

Apart from questions of rank, posh British Victorians never called each other by their first names. Surnames or titles only.

So, if Vereker was not from the nobility himself, he would address Lord Chelmsford as "my Lord". If Vereker was from the nobility he would address Lord Chelmsford as "Chelmsford".

Lord Chelmsford would address Vereker as "Vereker".

I would also expect that he would acknowledge the rest of the room before speaking to an individual.

GOC is General Officer Commanding as far as I am aware.

I rather thought it was part of seeing the Army through the bumbling upper class idiot lens that the entire film was guilty of.

Utter drivel and a calumny against some good officers.

Bob

No, he wouldn't address General Thesiger as 'My lord', since he wasn't yet, or at least nobody knew he was. Yes, his father had died in October, but the news didn't reach Natal until some time in February. So 'my lord' would have been out of line.

Well at least he didn't look at him and say "Dude"!

There are few films that get the nitty gritty of military protocol correct. Two of the best at getting it right were 'Tunes of Glory' and 'Master and Commander'. The former would have been helped by the fact that most of the cast and crew would have served in the armed forces. The latter just made the effort.

In the movie Vereker's father is mentioned as a member of the House of Lords, which means his father is a lord. Vereker, as the son of a Lord, is on equal footing with Chelmsford.

As far as being on a first name basis, remember that Holmes and Watson share a rental for twenty years, and are NEVER "John" and "Sherlock." It's the height of Victorian informality that they aren't "Dr. Watson" and "Mr. Holmes" to each other.

It's like waiting for Germans to go to the "du" form. Most friends don't live that long.

What on earth were Chelmsforsd and Vereker doing in the mess of the 24th?

I just did seem like bad form to me. Both Chelmsford and Vereker were in line for a title so they may well have known each other, but addressing your commanding officer by his first name in front of his command just seemed off.

Per Artilleryman, in "Tunes of Glory", Major Jock Sinclair, acting colonel, says: "Christian names in the mess, except for me whom you'll address as colonel – I'll call you what I like".

Nicknames are also acceptable between bosom companions, old school chums and so forth. If they had been part of the same social set previously, including just being around in Society circles, it's quite possible they'd think of each other in those terms (but maybe not best form to use those in the mess, what?).