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"Who Loves/Hates The Last Jedi Movie *Spoiler Alert*" Topic

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COMMODORE LMV Inactive Member18 Dec 2017 8:03 a.m. PST

Okay, who loves/hates the new movie?
I love:
1) That they got rid of the awful, underdeveloped, silly character of Snoke. I am so glad that they killed him like a bitch and displayed his dead body on the floor several times like a piece of crap.
2) That they finally introduced a Dreadnought ship into canon.
3) Luke gets badass.
4) General Hux's line, "How can we have all this stuff and we still can't do anything?"
5) Chewie eating those ducks.
6) The Jedi nuns.
7) Kylo gets rid of his stupid helmet.
I hated:
1) The tedious ship chase! HELLO! How about 2 ships jump to light speed and come back in front of the rebel ship!?! Oh I'm sorry then they might have had to come up with 45 minutes of a better plot.
2) Maybe they should stop killing off the characters whose actors are actually still alive in real life! Leia getting blown off the bridge was perfect. I love her portrayal, but Jim she's dead.
3) Why did they kill Ackbar, I know the actor is dead but can't anybody wear that Lobster costume and not make a difference?
4) Why was that Admiral wearing a ballroom gown? Was she dressed for another movie and walked onto the wrong set?
5) Did we really need to see Luke milk that dinosaur and drink it?
Overall, I liked the new movie. I still agree with others that it is a re-make packaged as a sequel. I give it a B+ which is up from a D from the Force Awakens. Rogue One remains my all time favorite A+++.

Gulik2318 Dec 2017 8:59 a.m. PST

I did like the movie a lot--the scene where meditating Luke momentarily sees two setting suns really got me.
But…Since when can ships not be tracked through hyperspace? Wasn't the whole plot device that got us to the Battle of Yavin that the Empire placed a tracking device on the Falcon so the rebels would lead the Death Star to their secret base?

Dezmond18 Dec 2017 9:03 a.m. PST

Ech. It has a subplot about a pink haired feminist berating a Starfighter Pilot for his toxic masculinity and mansplaining, which is totes the kind of awesome space fantasy adventure I want to pay to go to the cinema and sit still for two and a half hours to experience.

And then Disney kills *Luke Skywalker* so they can replace him with a girl.

Wackmole9 Supporting Member of TMP18 Dec 2017 9:05 a.m. PST

I liked the

1) Dreadnaught
2) Gambling town shown just how screwed up the Galaxy is.
3) Like the New Characters development
4) Chew eating the Ducks

I Disliked
1) Re do of the Empire/ROJ Story line
2) Luke's Point of view and Wining.
3) The Rebels getting the Bleeped text beat out of them
4) The Horrible Commanders of the 1st Order.
5) Have the Original Support cast but really not using them at all.

basileus66 Inactive Member18 Dec 2017 9:16 a.m. PST

I enjoyed it a lot. The only thing I miss from Lucas' movies is the awesomeness of his scenics. I would have desired more development of the universe where the story is set.

TGerritsen Supporting Member of TMP18 Dec 2017 9:53 a.m. PST

I talked about my hate for this movie in the other thread. I love Star Wars so much, but this film utterly killed any interest I have in future Star Wars films.

It's too bad as there were so many things I wanted to like about this movie. I went into it with zero preconceptions looking forward to it. I hated it utterly, despite liking many individual pieces. The whole is far less than the parts.

I liked-

1. Poe and Finn as characters, and even Kylo was better. I enjoyed Rey, except for the non-reveal of her parentage.
2. The A-wing making a very brief appearance in the hangar.
3. Luke tossing his lightsaber when handed to him.
4. BB 8
5. Luke's twist at the end.

I hated-
1. Space Jesus Leia. What should have been a cool 'Leia uses the force' scene made ridiculous by how it was filmed.
2. Space bombs that use gravity to drop- in space. (Yeah, Empire had Tie Bombers, but those were energy bombs, and they could have been shot out the bottom- these were literally bombs they drop on a target- in space).
3. The entire 'we'll keep running' sequence. You are down to a few hundred rebels (or 'resistors?' They aren't rebels any more since they are the 'resistance.').
4. General Huck the whiner
5. Who's Snoke? Who cares.
6. Who's Phasma? Who cares.
7. Maz is not a thing. Stop forcing Maz to be a thing.
8. They ruin the brilliant decision to bring Yoda back as a puppet by making him seem like a drunken idiot and burning the tree and books anyway (but wait- did they? No, they are on the Millenium Falcon, making the entire scene a pointless waste of time.)
9. Rose- I liked the actress, and the character- but what they did with her was criminal. She's a space janitor that just happens to know how to fly a speeder? And Finn does too? Wasn't a major plot point from TFA the fact that he had no idea how to fly and thus needed Poe to escape? He was asleep until the beginning of this movie- when did he learn?
10. Admiral wandered in from a Gala Dance to lead the resistors while Leia was injured. What, Admirals don't have uniforms? Also, you are down to a few hundred people who are all terrified they are going to die- why not clue them in on the plan?
11. Chewi was a prop, not a character.
12. R2 was a prop and in one scene. Either cut the cord or don't. Stop dragging them in for one scene.
13. The Millenium Falcon flies through a crystal cave that looks a lot like the Death Star interior from ROTJ. Why does the Millenimum Falcon have to have a death defying flight through an interior in every film. Why do the bad guys keep following them?
14. The cynical end scene that looked like a bad Wal Mart Commerical. You too can pretend to be a Jedi (buy your toys now).
15. The cynicism of this entire movie that looks like it was created by committee and then tested until it was the least objectionable to the widest audience.

It occurs to me that they said at one point they were down to about 400 rebels (and much less than that survive). Never mind that they never explain why that happened or how the First Order managed to conquer the Galaxy (or who the hell Snoke is and how he did it), but if you haven an entire Galaxy of people and only 400 people care enough to resist, that doesn't make you a rebellion, that makes you fanatical lost causes.

Think about it. If 400 people today were all that remained of a rebellion against anything just on Earth, we'd not care much about them. This is the whole galaxy. When the bad guys are a weird old dude pretending to be the emperor and his goofy petulant child is his backup- you have to be a pretty ineffectual resistance to not be able to manage more than 400 people to stop them. Hell, the Emperor and Vader were really powerful and menacing, and half the Galaxy rose up against them- Snoke must have had some really amazing things up his sleeve to do better than that. But we'll never know.

COMMODORE LMV Inactive Member18 Dec 2017 10:02 a.m. PST

Thank you for reminding me.
I also hate that because of the prequels I forgot that Yoda was a drunken Miss Piggy!
I hope when I die and come back as a force spirit it is in my 20s like the remade Anakin ghost!

Dezmond18 Dec 2017 10:09 a.m. PST

Admiral Gender Studies doesn't explain The Plan so Disney can lecture all the evil men who have paid to see their movie about the important of trusting women in all thing at all times. #believewomen


I get the feeling the Offical Star Wars Universe has always been a lot smaller than the West End Games derived version.

So in the official version the Empire never had 25000 Star Destroyers and the what 20 odd rebel starfighters we see attack the Death Star are all the fighters they have.

Tacitus18 Dec 2017 10:11 a.m. PST

Ah, but if they told us how the First Order and Snoke (or who the hell he is) conquered the galaxy, then they wouldn't have that fodder for future films.

haywire18 Dec 2017 10:21 a.m. PST

2) Maybe they should stop killing off the characters whose actors are actually still alive in real life! Leia getting blown off the bridge was perfect. I love her portrayal, but Jim she's dead.

Carrie Fischer died way after her scenes were filmed. You would have to refilm a bunch of new scenes to fix Poe's Mutiny.

COMMODORE LMV Inactive Member18 Dec 2017 10:44 a.m. PST

I understand. But they still killed Luke at the end and they still played off Leia like she is in it for the long haul. Would not have been that much to keep Luke.
Having said this I am completely okay with CGI Leia in the next one, but they have already ruled that out.

skinkmasterreturns18 Dec 2017 10:54 a.m. PST

Thank you. You have convinced me to wait for Redbox.

Personal logo Flashman14 Supporting Member of TMP18 Dec 2017 11:00 a.m. PST

They could awkwardly recast Leia that has not been ruled out.

Good points from Gerritsen:

YES! "Maz is not a thing. Stop forcing Maz to be a thing."

Re: "… you haven an entire Galaxy of people and only 400 people care enough to resist, that doesn't make you a rebellion …" there is this: link
(Resistance infrastructure and support was largely wiped out in The Force Awakens)

Mutant Q18 Dec 2017 11:36 a.m. PST

I enjoyed it. I was really afraid that this going to be a rehash of Empire the same way that Fore Awakens was just A New Hope with renamed characters. However, the film went is directions I wasn't expecting, and I give it points for that.

Toaster18 Dec 2017 11:50 a.m. PST

I too liked that it would go just so far down the remake path and then throw a curve ball. After RotJ I asked why Luke bothered force summoning his lightsaber when if he'd turned it on and spun it in place the Emperor would have got a nasty shock, so happy to see someone else thought the same.


Toaster18 Dec 2017 11:52 a.m. PST

Oh and the duck scenes were entirely superfluous to the movie, they exist only so Disney can sell cute toys, burn them, kill them with fire!!!

David Manley18 Dec 2017 11:55 a.m. PST

Porgs are based on puffins (which live on the area where the island scenes were filmed), not ducks

mjkerner Supporting Member of TMP18 Dec 2017 12:10 p.m. PST

TGerritson, you've captured Hollywood perfectly in #15, lol.

repaint18 Dec 2017 2:12 p.m. PST

-I hated the Disney touch with pc characters, especially Finn's friend that was chosen because she is overweight and asian… to be well inclusive, oddly enough it came off (to me) as racist.
-Super increase in the number of "powerful female characters", why not but again Disney BS for "the better good of the mass"
-It was too long
-They conveniently got rid of absolutely everything but a few elements to be free to write their own universe and story line
-the cute animals were superfluous and indeed Disney BS to sell toys
-the "humor" was borderline Mel Brooks flavored
-Snoke was a joke
-Kylo still doesn't have the shoulder for his "evil" role
-Luke is out of his depth as if too much on pot and still wondering where he is
-The red guards were pretty amateurish
-Some of the locations and scene lazily done (the jail and guards)
-The final big gun has as much power as a giant tan bulb
-Some of the scenes are totally disjoint

I liked the bombers scene. It was quite intense.
I liked the face off between Rey and Kylo

But yes, the pseudo-feminist/SJW ideology permeating the movie is crass

It is a B-.

Force Awaken: C-

Rogue one was indeed the better one with an A-

Dezmond18 Dec 2017 2:51 p.m. PST

The Guardian says The Last Jedi is the most triumphantly feminist Star Wars movie yet!


skinkmasterreturns18 Dec 2017 3:27 p.m. PST

Too bad Hollywood doesnt approach the subject like the opening scene of Barbarella,anymore.

Landorl18 Dec 2017 3:40 p.m. PST

I give it a C+ or maybe a B-.

Hated the opening battle. Those bombers were stupid! It's like they tried to make WWII in space. Also, a single bomber was able to completely destroy one of the most powerful ships in the galaxy!

The rebel ship was horribly designed if it was so easy to destroy the bridge.

The space chase was boring.

The final battle was very anti-climactic. There wasn't one!

If Snoke was able to rebuild the Empire, then why was he so easily taken down!

I hated that they purged just about every character from the original trilogy!

It was good to see Luke again. He should have been the one to stick around, and Lea should have been written off somehow.

Raynman18 Dec 2017 3:40 p.m. PST

I lost all interest or care after the prequels came out. Just turned me right off!

Landorl18 Dec 2017 3:41 p.m. PST

My biggest complaint is that they have done away with all of the post ROTJ stories out there. I wanted to see Mara Jade in there somehow

TGerritsen Supporting Member of TMP18 Dec 2017 5:01 p.m. PST

Careful now Landorl, Star Wars was always WWII in space and a big part of it's original appeal. Lucas took old WWII movies and recreated them shot for shot with space fighters to appeal to those old movies' excitement.

That still doesn't excuse 30mph space bombers dropping gravity bombs where there is no gravity in the latest movie, though.

ScottWashburn Sponsoring Member of TMP18 Dec 2017 6:28 p.m. PST

Overall I liked it. I agree with many of the negative points here, but there were enough good things to counterbalance. Oh, and here's another negative one you missed: If a single cruiser, piloted by one person, can go to lightspeed and ram the enemy flagship inflicting massive damage on a ship a hundred times its size and a half dozen star destroyers, then why isn't this done all the time? With a robot pilot if you can't find a suicidal volunteer. It's like in so many Star Trek episodes where they invent some new technology or new tactic on the fly to save themselves and then YOU NEVER SEE IT AGAIN :)

28mm Fanatik18 Dec 2017 8:35 p.m. PST

Come on now, it wouldn't be Star Wars if there are no plot holes or scientific inconsistencies. We might as well ask why do they insist on fighting with light sabers when "The Force" can kill you in so many other, more efficient ways.

I'm with the critics on this one: link

Mark Plant18 Dec 2017 10:25 p.m. PST

Several rebellions have gone on to win from such positions. Fidel Castro is not a hero of mine, but he did.

And major battleships can be sunk by line bombers, if they get through.

I have issues, but not with the military stuff. The gravity bombs are stupid, but the ships that take a hit also "fall" in a ridiculous manner.

Dezmond19 Dec 2017 3:02 a.m. PST

*Fidel Castro is not a hero of mine, but he did.*

The Guardian says,

Pro-activist and Anti-Empire, The Last Jedi is as left wing as Jeremy Corbyn!


Norrins19 Dec 2017 3:47 a.m. PST

I enjoyed the film more than I enjoyed The Force Awakens.

Yep, some of it is daft. No momentum in space, really?

Regarding tracking the Rebel fleet at Lightspeed, in Rogue One, in the scene in which Jyn Erso searches for the Death Star plans. Amongst the Empire files is something called "hyperspace tracking".

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa19 Dec 2017 4:55 a.m. PST

15. The cynicism of this entire movie that looks like it was created by committee and then tested until it was the least objectionable to the widest audience.

Yup. But no one, but no one, is going to take a chance with the amounts of money being spent and a very large and vocal fan base. So we end up with fairly bland and risk free!

As for it being Momentum in space, oh dear, people are projecting overly on to a Star Wars movie. Anyway a Momentum-themed Resistance would have been a huge anti-climax as they self-imploded in a purge of 'space Blairites' and an extended scene of people yelling 'splitter' and denouncing each other across the amphitheatre-like briefing room…

Not too fussed about Rose, the technical savant, space janitor being something of a sci-fi trope. The inappropriately dressed Admiral was again another well trodden sci-fi trope of up-tight officer to reign in the hot-shot, not sure their gender is remotely important though I could make the argument that film is perpetuating negative stereotypes about women and femininity by dressing her in an evening gown. Though Poe might have had the grace to learn the lesson about heroics versus living to fight another day before he charged his junk skimmers at a unit of AT-AT's dialled up to 11 and ended up with a Resistance that can fit in the Falcon!

Dezmond19 Dec 2017 5:44 a.m. PST

+++not sure their gender is remotely important though+++

Ah dude. It isn't an accident that these days all bad guys are white men and good guys are everyone else.

There is another article in the Guardian pondering if, having succeeded in driving the white devil penises from all that brought them comfort, they have made the world a better place or just different.


(And it being that

1: Whatever has white skin and a penis is an enemy
2: Whatever doesn't have white skin, or a penis, is a friend

is what is considered 'safe' to do in the most mainstream of mainstream entertainment is, well, not enormously conducive to me being able to enjoy a stupid Star Wars movie for a start.)

(Admiral Gen'Dar Stoodies wears a dress as an explict rejection of the masculinity that wearing the uniform of the patriarchy would represent. Embrace the sacred feminine!)

(Not that I am bitter)

28mm Fanatik19 Dec 2017 8:04 a.m. PST

Pro-activist and Anti-Empire, The Last Jedi is as left wing as Jeremy Corbyn!

SW has always had a liberal agenda. ANH was an anti-war movie that grew out of the Vietnam War. The Empire was the big bad USA and the rebels represented the hapless VC.

What did you think it was a metaphor of, Roman history?

Dezmond19 Dec 2017 8:55 a.m. PST

Honestly? I think a certain amount of ambiguity about who the bad guys in Star Wars were helped its lasting and global appeal.

The Evil Empire was some combination of the British Empire, Nazi Germany, the USSR and, as you say, the squares who lost the Vietnam war.

My impression is that everyone in the U.K. thought the Empire were Nazis, Germans thought they were British and everyone else thought they were British Nazis.

Similarly, hippies might think they were The Man, but Reaganites assumed they were Commies.

(And I seem to remember hearing Saddam Hussain liked Star Wars for its Rebels Against the Empire theme).

Anyway, as a result pretty much everyone on the planet could enjoy Star Wars without feeling too much like it was propaganda directed against them personally. And if George Lucas felt differently he largely kept his mouth shut and sold everyone merch.

I don't think you can say the same of Disney Star Wars.

28mm Fanatik19 Dec 2017 10:08 a.m. PST

I don't think you can say the same of Disney Star Wars.

Newsflash. George Lucas's SW and Disney SW are two sides of the same coin, whether or not you agree with the politics:



The "Empire versus Republic" dressing more parallels Rome's tumultuous history, but Lucas himself admitted that SW grew out of Vietnam.

Dezmond19 Dec 2017 10:15 a.m. PST

Well, I don't think Star Wars would have been as lastingly popular as was had Mr Lucas been very insistent it was an anti-US, anti-capitalism movie and anyone who disagreed was doing it wrong.

I mean, here in the U.K. I always played it as WWII in space, because, well,

If Star Wars is, and always has been, a screed against the evils of western civilisation, late stage capitalism, patriarchy, masculinity, heteronormativity, the male gaze, white privilege and *me* in particular, I'd kind of like to know what isn't so I can go there instead.

And I sure as heck don't want to buy any more of Disneys plastic tat.

28mm Fanatik19 Dec 2017 10:51 a.m. PST

I don't think Star Wars would have been as lastingly popular as was had Mr Lucas been very insistent it was an anti-US, anti-capitalism movie and anyone who disagreed was doing it wrong.

It was allegorical, and didn't matter in the final analysis that the leftist Lucas intended it to be a cautionary tale against American imperialism because SW actually made bad guys cooler than the good guys. More people dress up as Darth Vader and Storm Troopers than good guys (aka "rebel scum") at conventions.

Then-VP Dick Cheney even went to a Halloween party as Vader once.

Dezmond19 Dec 2017 11:06 a.m. PST

I always liked X-Wings more than TIE fighters. And when I was playing X-Wing I always imagined I was a Space Spitfire Pilot flying in the Space Battle of Britian.

I don't think there was anything in the text or supporting materials to contradict that view overly.

If it had been more explicitly fighting for Antifa against the Evil Anglo-Saxon Judeo-Christian Patriarchy I don't think I would have been as in to it.

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa19 Dec 2017 1:17 p.m. PST

(Admiral Gen'Dar Stoodies wears a dress as an explict rejection of the masculinity that wearing the uniform of the patriarchy would represent. Embrace the sacred feminine!)

So why are pretty much all the other crew uniformed? that to me that implies she's actually sold out to the patriarchy and abandoned her sisters for power, privilege and a pretty dress…. And why does the double dealer have an apparent speech impediment are all people with such problems untrustworthy…

Personally I've always taken SW as evil mystical master and apprentice, with Empire, versus with mystical monk-like good guy(s), on the hero's journey, and plucky freedom fighters. With cool space battles (albeit inspired by WWII films and stock footage)! Simple as that. The First Order is more obviously, and somewhat ham-handedly, 'fascist' than the Empire, clearly whoever wrote General Hux's address in TFA had been watching 'Triumph of the Will' on YouTube. Personally I thought that they really didn't need that kind of flagging that they were the bad guys – massacred a village at the start of the film!

There's plenty of sci-fi with a direct political or social messages out there. I'm just not sure that SW really is that though I'd accept it's coloured by the views of those who made it (though again I think people are reading way too much in to stuff). Unless someone really wants to argue that anything that suggests war and murderous authoritarian rulers may not be a good thing is just liberal propaganda?

Now Star Trek…..

Dezmond19 Dec 2017 2:17 p.m. PST

Don't take my word for it that Admiral Jen Darstodies is supposed to challenge preconceptions about female bosses:-


and as I say being lectured about male responses to female authority is totes what I look for in escapist fantasies.


All evil white men oppress the noble women and PoC just by drawing breath, such is their unique evil. Indeed, as far as Progressivism is concerned, suggestinging there could be a distinction between Evil Facist White Men and Other White Men is the sort of violent thought that must be stamped out to speed the coming of their glorious and inevitable socialist utopia.

I'm not so much reading too much in to things as reading what Progressives post endlessly on twitter and write articles about in The Guardian.

How effective their propaganda is may be debatable, but just reading what they tell me they want to achieve by making things like The Last Jedi makes it fairly difficult for me to enjoy it.

And if it does what they want it to it bodes… remarkably badly… for people like me.

They really are remarkably open about their desire to destroy the stories of my people to erase us from history. Indeed, many of them cannot comprehend why anyone might see that as being anything less than the best idea and most noble goal that has ever been conceived of.

chromedog19 Dec 2017 4:17 p.m. PST

The "tracking ships in hyperspace" thing was seeded in Rogue one (in the secret files repository) in the current EU (the old LEGENDS one doesn't count and never did).

Dezmond19 Dec 2017 5:50 p.m. PST

I think this accurately reflects my feelings on the matter:-

The worst part for me is how they utterly destroyed the character of Luke Skywalker, along with the mythology of the Force and everything the Jedi stood for. Cataline says that Luke is not in this movie, and in a sense that's true. The Luke in TLJ is nothing at all like the Luke in any of the OT movies, especially the grown man at the end of ROTJ.

But saying that the Luke we know is not in this film lets the SJWs off too easy. Luke is in the movie, and his character is exactly what they wanted. To take an 'evil cis white male' hero and turn him into a grotesque joke. A filthy, cowardly, hopeless, homeless old man who would be better off dead. The character himself knows this, and literally wishes for it. Wishes to die and take the last remnants of the old ways with him.

Make no mistake, what they've done with Luke's character, the Force, and the Jedi is intended to send a clear message: get out of the way cis white boys, and take your morality and ideas about western civilization with you. This is the age of diversity, of the feminine, of no morality save the command to seize wealth and power not earned. And judging from the plot holes…which are so large they call the rest of the universe into question, including any need to ever build a Death Star…it's also the age of stupidity and mindless feels.

I keep telling myself 'it's just a movie.' 'It's not worth getting upset over.' 'The OT is still there, you don't have to care about this.' But I'm actually angry over this. This was built to offend. And I hate the people who built it.

Personal logo mrwigglesworth Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2017 3:32 a.m. PST

Can't I just go see a movie for entertainment value without being preached to? I thought the purple hair woman was a terrible leader who left the troops in the dark and watched them fall into despair. Also if Po didn't help destroy the dreadnought it would have been shooting at them in the Chase and probably ended the rebellion.

Personal logo mrwigglesworth Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2017 3:34 a.m. PST

Oh and the purple hair woman turned to violence instead of diplomacy to end the mutiny. Just saying.

Dezmond20 Dec 2017 5:32 a.m. PST

Can't I just go see a movie for entertainment value without being preached to?

No. I really think at this point the Tolerant Progressives have made it very clear they intend you to have no escape from their control. Not even in your dreams and fantasies.

(Tolerant Progressives heard the 'I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me' song and immediately started work on projects to take the sky (in this case, daydreams of heroism and adventure in a galaxy far far away) from those who dared to even think themselves free of their ideology.)

28mm Fanatik20 Dec 2017 7:20 a.m. PST

Oh and the purple hair woman turned to violence instead of diplomacy to end the mutiny. Just saying.

It was Admiral Organa (not Holdo) who ended Poe's mutiny and made him see the errors of his ways. Just saying.

Personal logo mrwigglesworth Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2017 11:19 a.m. PST

Nope purple hair kick some steam vent and went on the attack. Just saying.

Captain Gideon Inactive Member20 Dec 2017 1:21 p.m. PST

For myself I really liked Last Jedi a lot and had no complaints except one a certain gold plated droid.

skinkmasterreturns20 Dec 2017 3:27 p.m. PST

I dont even want to see this movie now.

Dezmond20 Dec 2017 3:29 p.m. PST

Hey guys?

Do you wanna see the *real* Luke Skywalker?

Yknow. The one the feminists didn't cut the balls off.

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