"Dry brushing Union Coats" Topic
15 Posts
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TigerJon | 16 Dec 2017 8:42 a.m. PST |
Merry Christmas! I'm looking for some advice on painting Union blue. For the longest time I've painted coats that turn out too royal blue. While recently reading the Warlord Glory Hallelujah supplement, I saw a picture of a Union cavalry column on page 50 that has the look I want. It looks as if the painter left the base coat black and highlighted with a dry brush of light gray, maybe a very subtle violet. Any ideas on what would be a good color to get this look? Thanks. |
cavcrazy | 16 Dec 2017 9:00 a.m. PST |
I just go one or two shades of a lighter blue, some will use a very soft white. |
nnascati | 16 Dec 2017 9:23 a.m. PST |
When I do dark blue coats, not necessarily ACW, I start with a base of Navy Blue, a very dark blue which has a slight violet tint to it. I follow it with a black wash, and then dry brush with Delta-Ceremcoat "Ultra Blue". |
Timmo uk | 16 Dec 2017 10:06 a.m. PST |
Paint it dark blue, wash it with black and lift the wash off the high spots with a damp brush. This will give you the most subtle shading of all. Dark blue is a curious colour – it absorbs light like no other colour. If you start by painting in the brightest hue you want then work darker from there with washes there you should stand a good chance of getting a realistic representation. Really very dark blue often books blacker than black because it absorbs light. |
TigerJon | 16 Dec 2017 11:45 a.m. PST |
What is a good wash for this? Currently I have Nuln Oil and Midnight Blue. |
robert piepenbrink | 16 Dec 2017 11:52 a.m. PST |
Scales, gentlemen, scales! What works in 28mm is often not something I'd recommend in 15mm, let alone 6mm. Talk to me about scale, then talk to me about color choice and technique. |
TigerJon | 16 Dec 2017 12:10 p.m. PST |
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nnascati | 16 Dec 2017 12:20 p.m. PST |
I'm talking about how I do 28mm coats. |
TigerJon | 16 Dec 2017 12:26 p.m. PST |
Sorry, I have Drakenhoe Nightshade. |
Herkybird | 16 Dec 2017 2:12 p.m. PST |
Its true that smaller figure need to be lighter than larger figures, and optical illusion. |
Timmo uk | 16 Dec 2017 2:57 p.m. PST |
TigerJon, I just make washes from black Vallejo with water and flow enhancer but any black wash, ink or dark shade sold for figure painting would be fine. I really ought to find one myself. |
TigerJon | 16 Dec 2017 8:51 p.m. PST |
All good advice; thank you. While we're on the subject, what is a good light blue-gray for Union trousers to then wash? |
Flashman14 | 17 Dec 2017 11:13 a.m. PST |
Calls to make figures lighter because of distance and scale ONLY come up in discussions of ACW Union and Napoleonic French. Every example of this "lighten for distance" rule refers to differences of many, many miles and usually is exclusively accompanied by photos of mountains and landscapes as examples where environmental haze is in play; Yes, jeez, mountains look quite pale from far away, but I'm unconvinced this matters one jot for miniature gaming purposes. Further, show me where this rule is applied for British forces, show me your serried lines of pink. Show me your pale gray German armor, show me your lime green Russians, your off-white khaki clad Colonials, your sand colored Zulus, your tan muskets, your gray shakos and packs. You know the colors, why complicate it by selectively (and erroneously) trying to model air quality effects? These figures aren't any lighter because of distance: link These are roughly 15mm screen: link Here's a Union one, though these are 20mm to me:
These are roughly 10mm on my screen:
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Charlie 12 | 17 Dec 2017 6:06 p.m. PST |
Every example of this "lighten for distance" rule refers to differences of many, many miles and usually is exclusively accompanied by photos of mountains and landscapes as examples where environmental haze is in play; Yes, jeez, mountains look quite pale from far away, but I'm unconvinced this matters one jot for miniature gaming purposes. Actually, 'scale effect' in a well recognized phenomenon in model building and model railroading. The basic rule is that using full strength, full 'scale' colors produces an unrealistic effect (usually far too dark). This was dramatically demonstrated in an article on the subject when the author painted a 1/48 scale Spitfire in the full, unmodified colors, based on the paint chips of the actual colors. The result was flat wrong; far too intense and dark when compared to photos (or the real thing). Now the amount of modification needed can be very subtle and depends on the color and its intensity. But its still needed. Another element is how we view things. The real thing (soldiers, vehicles, etc) are seen under the full candle power of sunlight. We view our models/miniatures under far weaker artificial light. (You see this all the time. Take something outdoors and the colors will always look different than when viewed indoors or under cloudy conditions. Your 2 photos show that; compare the dark blues in each). To say the same doesn't apply to miniatures is just flat wrong. If I painted my 6mms ACW Union troops in colors matched to a swatch of cloth from an actual uniform coat, the overall effect would be grossly wrong (which is why I DON'T do it). |
Timmo uk | 18 Dec 2017 2:25 p.m. PST |
My own take on this is based on seeing images just like those shown above. The real world, during daylight hours, is generally bathed in masses of light – look how light the 'terrain' looks compared to the figures. I think the trouble comes exactly as Flashgun 14 writes – many wargame painting theories are based on 'notions' or copying but less so on original observation and as such tends to be piecemeal. To elaborate on his point what I always fail to understand is this idea that the colours should 'pop', when they don't in real life. As Flashman writes this notion is often only applied to dark blue or sometimes just the uniform coats but not the whole figure. Surely if the model is painted in a way to increase the saturation of the colour then this should be applied to all the surfaces of the figure not just the coat. However, if you look at the ACW re enactment images shown the figures actually 'pop' in a way because they are much darker than the terrain. I have painted my AB Napoleonics to get this same effect – light terrain and darker masses of troops as per eyewitness accounts of the formations of the era when seen at distance. In the wargames world a lot of model terrain is far too dark to look natural and thus painters want their figures to stand out so they paint them brighter than is natural. However, if they modelled the terrain with light naturalistic tones then figures painted in naturalistic colours would stand out well enough. I think the prevalence of black or dark undercoating of figures is partly to blame for these issues because everything gets too gloomy so the painter struggles with more and more brighter paint and then ends up with a result that is all a bit of a muddle. I actually think we generally make things far harder for ourselves than they really are. The model railway hobby and the chap painting his Spitfire mentioned above paint their impression of the model to be a realistic representation based on looking at the real thing or photographs of the real thing. Both are generally only displayed inside. Our hobby tends not to understand the notion of scale colour – and 'light' gets confused and turned into 'bright'. You only have to look at a heap of re-enactor images to get an idea of what the colours may have looked like. A lot of wargames painting is based on how other wargamers paint their figures rather than looking and making a critical judgement. The problem with copying is that the mistakes can get copied so over the years the dark blue French Napoleonic coat has ended up being far, far brighter that it really was. It was so dark that it looked black at a distance. Lots of acrylic model paint is far too bright to plausibly represent wool based uniforms. Really it's much easier to copy what's a reality than make it up. I always wonder with these popping colours how painters decide what to pop and what not to pop. |
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