tbeard1999 | 14 Dec 2017 3:19 p.m. PST |
I've added white and yellow paint comparisons which include both game paints and craft paints. And I've updated my red and blue comparisons with craft paints. The red comparisons page has my thoughts on craft paints vs. game paints. White Comparison: link Yellow Comparison: link Red Comparisons: link Blue Comparisons: link |
Flashman14 | 14 Dec 2017 3:49 p.m. PST |
I guess a photo (like the others) of the white and yellow isn't all that helpful? |
tbeard1999 | 14 Dec 2017 3:51 p.m. PST |
Flashman 14 – I haven't had time to take the photos. I will do so when time permits. I think that the photos of the paints is evidence that the test is genuine. And the test sheet, however messy, shows that the test was done. |
Marc33594 | 15 Dec 2017 9:45 a.m. PST |
Thank you for taking the time. Your summary of the various colors are well done and I like your rating system. Given your methodology your recommendations are greatly appreciated. |
wrgmr1 | 15 Dec 2017 10:19 a.m. PST |
Yes, thanks very much for taking the time to do all these, it is greatly appreciated. |
tbeard1999 | 15 Dec 2017 8:03 p.m. PST |
You guys are all welcome. This started as an experiment to REDUCE the number of paints on my workbench. I have the entire Citadel line (did some legal work and took a hobby store gift card in payment), a huge chunk of the Vallejo panzer colors line, lots of Vallejo Model Colors, the whole Reaper HD line, all of the Vallejo Game Color Extra Opaques, 25 Coat D' Arms paints, etc. So I have a ton of redundant colors, as well as colors that are slightly different, but practically identical. I decided to try to cut the paint rack down to 2-5 paints in each color group (blue, red, green, yellow, brown, grey, flesh and metallics). A target of 30 paints plus black and white. To find the very best colors, I had to test them as objectively as I could. While doing it, I tested a few craft paints. I've been bugged by the craft/game paint debate for decades. I HATE the idea of paying obscenely high prices for things I could buy cheaper at a craft or big box store. So when I discovered that the Michaels Craft Smart Matte line was dirt cheap and generally regarded as close to Ceramcoat (widely regarded as the best craft paint line), I decided to test the Craft Smart Matte line extensively to gain some insights on the craft paints/game paints debate. For $20 USD, I can buy ~30 paints to test. Buying Ceramcoat paints would cost ~$60+ and I'm not willing to spend that much on idle curiosity. I'm now convinced that both sides are correct; the key factor is your painting technique. With the right painting system and using acrylic medium to thin the craft paints when necessary, you can achieve results comparable to game paints, particularly when painting to tabletop standard. You will spend more time using craft paints, but I don't think that the difference is more than say, 25% or so. For many folks, the insanely cheap price of craft paints vs. game paints might make the extra time worth it. As noted in my posts, you could assemble a nice collection of 30 Craft Smart Matte Paints for as little as $14. USD 30 Vallejo paints would run $90. USD The cost difference per ml is gigantic – 1.2 cents per ML for craft paints vs 16.7 cents per ML for Vallejo game paints. If you're a paint hog (like me), you might wind up with hundreds of paints. The entire Craft Smart Matte Paints (82 I think) costs about $57. USD That many Vallejo paints will cost $250 USD or so. A pretty big difference. I have more game paints than I'll ever use. But if I were starting from scratch, I'd be very tempted to go with the Craft Smart Matte line, strategically supplemented by a few game/artists paints. I'd add the Liquitex Cadmium Red Medium, the Vallejo Model Color White and the Vallejo Model Air silver and gold. You could conceivably get 30 Craft Smart Matte paints for as little as $14 USD or as much as $21. USD Add $15 USD for the other 4 paints and you have a very nice set of paints for $30 USD-40. I don't think I'd use the Ceramcoat craft paints though. The price differential is about $1 USD per bottle. Unless you expect to use a LOT of a color, I don't think that the savings per bottle is significant. $75 USD vs $105 USD for the 34 paints described above. |
dragon6 | 15 Dec 2017 10:29 p.m. PST |
How much did the acrylic medium add to the cost? |
tbeard1999 | 15 Dec 2017 11:32 p.m. PST |
Dragon6 – I think a large bottle (27 oz.) of Future costs around $10. USD 8 oz Liquitex Matte Medium is about $7.50 USD. I did a test this afternoon and could tell a significant difference between craft paint thinned with water and thinned with acrylic medium or Future. I couldn't tell any difference in opacity between acrylic medium and Future. Of course matte acrylic medium will dry with a matte finish. Future will dry with a semigloss or gloss depending on the mixing ratio. I would have the medium or Future regardless of whether I used craft or game paints. |
Andy ONeill | 16 Dec 2017 8:07 a.m. PST |
Artists routinely mix their own colours and if you do this then you can greatly cut down on non military colours. If you have no idea of what to mix then you can get books with colour mixing recipes. Having said that, mixing your own panzer colours could prove a bit challenging. You can put the money you save from not buying dozens of tiny overpriced pots into getting a box of those panzer colours or mig ammo or whatever for them though. On a different note. Can you still buy palmer prism? |
Endless Grubs | 16 Dec 2017 11:39 a.m. PST |
I was wondering if you had the chance to test Liquitex Professional soft body cadmium yellow or titanium white in terms of coverage and cost since you had good results with the cadmium red. Also, is acrylic airbrush thinner the same as acrylic medium--i.e. same product but different applications? thanks for sharing your testing! EG |
tbeard1999 | 16 Dec 2017 2:08 p.m. PST |
Endless Grubs – I've got some soft body paints in storage; I'll see if I have those colors and test them. According to Liquitex, the Liquitex Airbrush Medium is a mixture of Acrylic Medium (Matte, maybe), distilled water, flow aid and retarder. I'm pretty sure the Golden Airbrush Medium is the same. When I run out, I don't think I'll buy any more, as I can mix my own and control the percentage of acrylic medium. As you might expect the Airbrush medium has a pretty low viscosity. The acrylic medium by itself is pretty thick and should be mixed with distilled water. Future floor wax has a much lower viscosity than the acrylic medium but is a bit thicker than the Airbrush medium. |
tbeard1999 | 16 Dec 2017 6:53 p.m. PST |
Endless Grubs - Yellow and Red Update I tested Liquitex Cadmium Yellow Light, which is a richer version of VMC 949 Light Yellow. It rates C/B+/A-/A. Thinned with my new magic thinner (Liquitex Matte Medium and distilled water in a 1:4 ratio), it rates C-/B/B+/A. It's inferior in opacity to VMC 949 Light Yellow, but it is a richer color. The Liquitex Cadmium Yellow Light Hue was considerably worse in opacity – D/C/C+/A. Thinning it made it a D-/C/C/A. I tested Liquitex Cadmium Yellow Medium, which is nearly identical to Citadel Flash Gitz Yellow and very close to Reaper HD Pale Saffron. It rates C/A-/A/A and is better than Flash Gitz Yellow and Pale Saffron. Thinned, it rates C-/B/B+/A. The Cadmium Yellow Medium Hue rates D/C/B/A. Thinned it rates D/C/B-/A. Note that there's a typo on my site for Flash Gitz Yellow – it should be C/B/B/A. I tested Liquitex Cadmium Red Light, which is very close to Coat D'Arms Angel Red, but superior. It rates C/A/2/A and is an excellent red. It's as good as Liquitex Cadmium Red Medium, though a bit brighter. I don't have the Cadmium Red Light Hue paint. |
Endless Grubs | 16 Dec 2017 7:28 p.m. PST |
Interesting--thanks for checking! |
tbeard1999 | 16 Dec 2017 9:05 p.m. PST |
Oh and in terms of price, the Liquitex are $5.15 USD-8.15 for 59ml. Vallejo paints are about $3 USD for 17ml, so the Liquitex paints are reasonable in price considering how much you get. |
Endless Grubs | 17 Dec 2017 11:05 a.m. PST |
What's next on your testing agenda--metallics or washes or ?? |
tbeard1999 | 17 Dec 2017 7:25 p.m. PST |
Gotta get the greens, browns and grays done first. I dread the greens; I have a ridiculous number of green paints (the Citadel line has 18 greens by itself). |
ced1106 | 17 Dec 2017 9:38 p.m. PST |
> Craft Smart Matte Paints These are from Michael's, correct? Thanks for the recommendation. I really like their "Brown Metallic", which I use for bronze and undercoating gold. I have but haven't tried their "King's Gold", a light gold. My Folkart metallic gold's serving me well, but getting all lumpy and yuck. I've been thinning my paints with Liquitex Airbrush Medium b/c someone on Reaper recommended it for hobby metallic paints. I just use it all the time for all my paints because the bottle it came in is so big. I use a garage storage bin (for nuts and bolts) to hold my hobby paints and plastic bin for the craft paints. I'm running out of space for the craft paints, so should throw away the gunky ones and colors I never use. Sorta defeats the cheapness of the paints, but whatever. |
pikeman666 | 18 Dec 2017 1:09 p.m. PST |
I was recently in a Michael's after resuming our hobby after a hiatus. Previously I used a lot of the ceramcoat paint and never used the "specialty" paint. I'm hugely impressed with the range of colors and reasonable price. I've managed to restore many of my bottles of ceramcoat, but any that need replacing will have the store paint used in their place. |
tbeard1999 | 18 Dec 2017 8:09 p.m. PST |
Yes, the Craft Smart Matte paints are the Michaels store brand. In my tests, they performed surprisingly well. Note that a limited test of the Craft Smart Semigloss paints showed them to be inferior to the Matte line. At 70 cents a bottle, it's hard to go wrong. I also used Liquitex Airbrush medium, but found that I could make my own by mixing Liquitex Matte Medium and distilled water in a 1:4 ratio. Also, Future floor wax makes a great thinner. |
Marc33594 | 19 Dec 2017 5:35 a.m. PST |
Hopefully NOT a highjack. I do find that when craft paints start to go (read dry out) the worst thing to do is add water. I find a few drops of an extender (I use Folk Arts) can restore the craft paint to many more uses. Once again tbeard absolutely invaluable information! |
Sgt Slag | 19 Dec 2017 1:53 p.m. PST |
I appreciate your efforts (especially the photo's), but I also appreciate your detailed explanation of how you tested the paints, and how your graded them. I am interested in coverage for orange paints (need it particularly for the faces, and skin, on Hobgoblins, per the 1977 AD&D Monster Manual description). I bought a couple of craft brands, as well as an artist acrylic tube of paint. Now I can do some objective testing, and find out which one performs the best. It is not critical, but I will enjoy it, nonetheless. I also plan to test my yellow paints, as I use them far more than orange paints. Heck, I may test all of the paints that I have, so I can stop wasting time using paints which are too transparent… Always looking for ways to speed up my painting, to reduce the pile of unpainted mini's. Cheers! |
tbeard1999 | 19 Dec 2017 3:23 p.m. PST |
Sgt Slag – Thanks for the kind words. Yeah, the purpose of the exercise was to let me winnow down the hundreds of paints I have to a few dozen of the best. I still have browns (shudder), greys, oranges and purples to go. |
tbeard1999 | 20 Dec 2017 2:54 p.m. PST |
Just added the paint swatch sheets for white and yellow. link link |