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"Where to find 28mm Uchelwyr figures?" Topic


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09 Dec 2017 7:53 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Changed title from "Where to find 28 mm Uchelwyr figures?" to "Where to find 28mm Uchelwyr figures?"


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Paskal Supporting Member of TMP08 Dec 2017 11:58 p.m. PST

Hello everyone,

Where to find in 25 mm/30 mm figurines representing Uchelwr of the eleventh, twelfth or thirteenth century?

Thank you

Pascal

Mick in Switzerland09 Dec 2017 1:52 a.m. PST

Wouldn't they look similar to Saxon Hirdmen or well equipped Fryd in the 11th Century. Gripping Beast and Crusader have nice ranges as do many others.

I suppose that later, they would be very similar to Crusaders and knights of the 12th and 13th Century. I would look at Perry Crusades figures or Crusader Later Crusaders.

steamingdave47 Inactive Member09 Dec 2017 1:56 a.m. PST

Not really my area, but surely as aristocratic warriors they would be pretty much as any other Western European knights. The Crusader range from Perrys would seem to fit the bill.

kodiakblair09 Dec 2017 2:54 a.m. PST

Funny. I posted much the same info as Mick and Dave last night but I don't see it. Is there a glitch ?

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP09 Dec 2017 9:06 a.m. PST

kodiakblair,There was indeed a little problem, the topic became corrupted and was deleted.
I had to re-launch the topic …

Mick in Switzerland and steamingdave47 I want a figurine and his horse that reproduces exactly the illustration No. 48 of the page 95 of the edition of May 1989 of the book "Armies of Feudal Europe 1066-1300" by Ian Heath …

No other thing…

Mick in Switzerland09 Dec 2017 11:28 a.m. PST

Sorry, I don't have that version of the Ian Heath Book. I have the 1978 version but the picture numbers must be different. Picture 48 is a Scotts Spearman.

kodiakblair09 Dec 2017 2:14 p.m. PST

@Paskal

Any Feudal knight would fit the description, Ian Heath's book say the Welsh were heavily influenced by Marcher lords so adopted "English" harness. It also says Llywelyn Bren would be dressed and armed the same as his English enemies.

The idea of nationial dress for soldiers in Medieval Britain has fallen from grace in the near 30 years since Heath's book.

Anyway Essex Miniatures M2e looks good,just don't order the barded horse.

link

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP10 Dec 2017 1:18 a.m. PST

Thank you all … But to come back to my original question, should we know which manufactures propose 25 / 30mm welsh figures of the 11th, 12th and 13th centuries to see if there are Uchelwyr (or Uchelwr?) And if there is none, it is not normal…

I find it odd that the sculptors make the infantry and not the "Uchelwr"(or Uchelwyr ?), it is not possible god that there is not one!

kodiakblair10 Dec 2017 2:50 a.m. PST

@Paskal

I just did a google search for 28mm Medieval figures and you're correct no Uchelwyr figures. At least for the 6 companies I looked at.

There were also no "Scottish" knights listed. This is not surprising as landowners be they Welsh,Scots or English were all cut from the same cloth. Weapons and armour being their stock in trade it follows they would all use similar equiptment.

I have the feeling you're searching for a distinction that in real life probably didn't exist. Another google search,this time for Welsh Knights (welsh wars). I can't see anything that shows "Welsh-ness".

link

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP10 Dec 2017 7:09 a.m. PST

@kodiakblair

A distinction that in real life probably did not exist? If it still existed in the twelfth century and certainly more in the eleventh century … Continue to look … Note that Old Glory offers Scottish knights (HCW-24) while selling English knights …
The Scots were therefore equipped differently from the English?

And at such a late time?

Huscarle10 Dec 2017 7:51 a.m. PST

"illustration No. 48 of the page 95 of the edition of May 1989 of the book "Armies of Feudal Europe 1066-1300" by Ian Heath …"
The illustration looks very Norman or possibly Spanish to me. Have a look at Crusader El Cid line.
The description, "clearly the upper-classes, wore light armour, comprising helmet, short mail corselet, circular shield and very occasionally mail hosen."
The description of the armour of the rebel Uchelwyr Llywelyn Bren states "it would have made him indistinguishable from his English adversaries"

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP10 Dec 2017 8:18 a.m. PST

Yes it is true, but the one who is illustrated is not indistinct from his enemies him, even without his Welsh shield …
Well, there is the reference SW01b Mounted Welsh Warlord of Gripping Beast, but it seems to me earlier than those of the time that interests me …It's weird, it does not suit me…

Wulfgar18 Dec 2017 6:41 p.m. PST

Paskal, I'm thinking there would be quite a lot of difference in the appearance of the Welsh Ulcelwyr between the 11th and 13th centuries. There was a huge change in knightly equipment over more than 200 years.

I'm thinking that the Ulchelwyr of the 13th C. would be easier to obtain because they'd have the same equipment as the English. Perhaps mix in some sergeants to keep the equipment a bit inferior to the English?

11th C. Ulchwyr would be more problematic. As Mick in Switzerland has pointed out, the wealthier Welsh and their household troops would look more like the Saxons, but not exactly the same. They wore moustaches, but not beards, and many would have gone barelegged, as per their Irish and Scottish cousins.

Few Welsh are produced in 15mm, and even less in 28mm. In the end, if you want to field Ulchelwyr, you may have to compromise a bit. My 15mm late 11th C. Uchelwyr are a mixture of Scots, Franks, and Saxons.

Druzhina18 Dec 2017 8:24 p.m. PST
Paskal Supporting Member of TMP19 Dec 2017 6:17 a.m. PST

Thank you again Druzhina for your continued help, but where to find the figurines that reproduce the illustration No. 48 of the page 95 of the edition of May 1989 of the book "Armies of Feudal Europe 1066-1300" by Ian Heath that you have put in link? … On the other hand, in the Men at Arms Series, 151, there is nothing real about the Welsh armies and maybe about Scottish armies …

Paskal

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2017 11:12 p.m. PST

Where to find in 25 mm/30 mm "scales", a figurine and his horse that reproduces exactly the illustration No. 48 of the page 95 of the edition of May 1989 of the book "Armies of Feudal Europe 1066-1300" by Ian Heath ?

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP21 Dec 2017 8:14 a.m. PST

There is a good god for me because there is a good day for me !

The reference DAC-1 of Old glory in 25mm: 12th Century Crusader Knights is exactly what I wanted …to represent Uchelwyr !

Four variations out of five or 9 figures in this reference reproduce exactly illustration no. 48 on page 95 of the May 1989 edition of Ian Heath's book "Armies of Feudal Europe 1066-1300" which I so much desired and the fifth variant, the tenth figure, would represent a Welsh king!

But I'll have to find out about a Welsh king's haircut and if he had mustaches and / or a beard…

I will not even have to file the legs that are not covered by the mesh but by the long tunic …

In addition the hands are bare, a stroke of luck …

The only thing left to do is to find Welsh shields and find out what types spears they used …

So here's a case almost settled …

Paskal

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP22 Dec 2017 10:20 p.m. PST

It seems that some Welsh warriors and it's not about Uchelwyr on foot, but commoners (the archers too?) of the Uchelwy period sometimes wore mail coats and helmets ???

So here too the specific figurines do not exist and this time, nothing is illustrated in the WRG…

I'm not out of the woods !

bobm195924 Dec 2017 11:30 a.m. PST

warrior make the old Crusade Miniatures line….it has all the figures you need if I recall….but only one pose of each and I can't remember what they look like as figures.

madaxeman25 Dec 2017 5:47 a.m. PST

I think someone may have to call Margaret for this one…

dailymotion.com/video/x4n10h

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP25 Dec 2017 9:32 a.m. PST

The reference DAC-1 of Old glory in 25mm: 12th Century Crusader Knights is exactly what I wanted …to represent Uchelwyr !It's the best which reproduces exactly the illustration No. 48 of the page 95 of the edition of May 1989 of the book "Armies of Feudal Europe 1066-1300" by Ian Heath …

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP18 Feb 2018 11:47 p.m. PST

By the way, the round shields of the foot and mounted Welsh warriors of the 12th and 13th centuries were flat or convex ?

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP22 Dec 2018 6:12 a.m. PST

The best is still the Crusader knights of Old Glory.

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