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"Black Tree Design Miniatures" Topic

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Rhysius Cambrensis24 Nov 2017 5:16 a.m. PST


I placed an order with Black Tree 6 weeks ago, I keep messaging for an update/ETA and I have still not received an ETA for my order. I will be opening a Paypal dispute against them now to try and get my hard earned money back!

Avoid at all costs.

Kevin C Supporting Member of TMP24 Nov 2017 7:13 a.m. PST

I see that you live in the UK. Please specify that you are speaking about the Black Tree Design UK, because I have always had very good service from Black Tree Design in the US (the one in Texas).


Rhysius Cambrensis24 Nov 2017 7:48 a.m. PST

They are the same company you Deleted by Moderator!

GypsyComet24 Nov 2017 7:56 a.m. PST

Sort of. When I was ordering some years ago even the Texas branch was frustrated with the UK, which I gathered was where all the casting takes place. Filling my order required stock from the UK, which he freely admitted took far longer than it should have. It seems this has not changed, which is a shame.

keithbarker24 Nov 2017 8:33 a.m. PST

I have not ordered from Black Tree UK in a while, but I always found them to be reliable but slow. I could put up with the "speed" of their service because of their very reasonable prices.

Dashetal24 Nov 2017 10:11 a.m. PST

The owner lives in Texas and is very reliable. He has some arrangement with someone in the UK who operates independently. The castings for both operations are provided by the UK individual. If I had to guess, I think the original owner is the UK operator and he has retained some control over the current owner by manufacturing the figures.

Neal Smith24 Nov 2017 10:16 a.m. PST

Most of the time I have had great service from BTD(US). There was once when I ordered a bunch of British Paras and the UK side was very slow in sending them, so I ended up cancelling.

Other than that it's been great.

Rhysius Cambrensis24 Nov 2017 12:05 p.m. PST

They have now cancelled and refunded my order via PayPal. They have emailed and offered their apologies. It was the owner from US. They are the same company and apparently their cutomer services is run from the US and casting is run from the U.K. What a stupid set up!

Apparently my order was nearly ready to go nearly, but they couldn't be bothered to email me for weeks to give me an up to date ETA.

Well, I've got my money back and now I'll be spending some more money with Warlord who have sent me two decent sized orders in the same time it's taken Black Tree to not send one smaller order (circa £53.00 GBP). Also I have received stuff from 1st Corp, Crusader and Artizan and Bad Squiddo all within this time frame. I also received an order from Army Painter direct within 48 hours!

I will never use them again. I know only to use proper British/European only companies who are properly organised!

I don't know why people are saying they are reliable when my sole experience is entirely to the contrary. And trying to blame the Thanksgiving holiday for an order placed at the beginning October and lack of communication since then has really irked me!

londoncalling24 Nov 2017 12:17 p.m. PST

I have bought quite heavily from BTD UK over the past 2 years taking advantage of their endless sales, and I have received every order although some have taken up to a month. Possibly they get overwhelmed by some of their sales (I guess particularly the ones which are 40% off) ? Sometimes comms are good sometimes not so good.

However customer service does make or break a company. From a personal perspective " I know the score" and I am more than happy to keep buying from them. Would I recommend? yes but with caveats…

Rhysius Cambrensis24 Nov 2017 12:29 p.m. PST

I wasn't waiting 1 month. I waited nearly 2 months with no ETA updates despite contacting them via Facebook, Facebook Messenger, and email.

Tin hat24 Nov 2017 1:10 p.m. PST

I used to order from BT design, but in the end gave up. Just not worth the hassle.

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Nov 2017 2:58 p.m. PST

I wasn't waiting 1 month. I waited nearly 2 months with no ETA updates despite contacting them via Facebook, Facebook Messenger, and email.

Remember back in the day when orders would be done by mail, 2-3 weeks for the check to get there…then "Please allow 14 days for the check to clear", and then anywhere from 4-8 weeks for your product to arrive?

Ah..we've been spoiled by technology.

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Nov 2017 2:59 p.m. PST

They are the same company and apparently their cutomer services is run from the US and casting is run from the U.K. What a stupid set up!

Perhaps you should offer your business consulting services to make their setup "not so stupid?"….
I mean…after ARE the expert so it would seem. wink

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Nov 2017 3:00 p.m. PST

I will never use them again. I know only to use proper British/European only companies who are properly organised!

Good luck with that…pip pip and all that! Let us know how those Italian "European" countries and mail system work for ya…


Rhysius Cambrensis24 Nov 2017 3:11 p.m. PST

Murphy no I don't remember that far back but maybe you are just really old and in a country that had poor services in the past.

I would happily offer them my services as a business consultant and I'm actually quite reasonably priced @ £60.00 GBP per hour plus VAT. Working as a professional engineering technical senior buyer if we treated our customers like that we wouldn't have any customers left.

I'm in the UK and in the same time frame as I didn't receive this order I received two orders from Warlord, an order from Army Painter Europe within 48 hours, and orders from 1st Corp, Great Escape Games, Westwind, Artizan, and Crusader. So it just goes to show that these British and European companies offer a much more efficient and much higher quality customer services with regular order notifications as the orders are received and processed.

So Murphy, my statements are based entirely on fact and 1st hand experience over the last two months. What are your Deleted by Moderator statements based on?

skinkmasterreturns24 Nov 2017 3:18 p.m. PST

Why the grief? It sounds like the lead pile is pretty high up as it is,with all those other orders,why not just work on that stuff while waiting,instead of all the agita?Sorry,like Murphy says,I remember waiting months too.I dont get the need for instant gratification just to have the order molder in some box.

Big Red Supporting Member of TMP24 Nov 2017 3:51 p.m. PST

Sorry some have had bad experiences with BTD. I've made many successful orders with them over the years and have never had a problem.

Rhysius Cambrensis24 Nov 2017 4:02 p.m. PST

Skinkmasterreturns – I don't have a lead pile, I order stuff and I get it painted and based like normal people.

2 months and no communication is not acceptable. Fraud is ever increasing and you have a limited time frame in which to claim your money back. So when a company you try to contact by every means remains silent on a simple ETA request you tend to just want to bail and make sure you get your money back.

It is not un-reasonable to do this.

Rhysius Cambrensis24 Nov 2017 4:02 p.m. PST

Evidently there are some American fan boys here!

egoodlander24 Nov 2017 4:52 p.m. PST

Not a fan boy, but I have orderd from BTD USA about 8 times this year and great service each time. Even though it is the same comppany, I have to give credit where credit is due.

combatpainter Fezian24 Nov 2017 5:44 p.m. PST

We know the deal with BTD it's been this way for 20 years on and off. Look back into the archives. We have multiple posts like yours. They have good prices, nice product but aren't always timely. Many of us know that. It's been that way for a long time.

Some of us accept it and some of us don't. When I am getting a figure for $1.00 USD I don't care how long you take. Now you know. You don't like it go someplace else BTD is unpredictable. You can always get your money back. You did. No worries. Move on. Nothing to see here.

Waco Joe24 Nov 2017 7:01 p.m. PST

I'll see you BTD and raise you a Dom's Decals. Sometimes you just have to roll with the peculiarities of a very small hobby.

wrgmr124 Nov 2017 10:05 p.m. PST

I'll raise you the Flag Dude!

+1 Combatpainter

Cerdic Supporting Member of TMP25 Nov 2017 12:08 a.m. PST

I'm just amazed that the word 'numpty' has landed Rhysius in the Dawghouse. Hardly a 'personal attack'. It is a word used for comical effect, a bit like doh in the Simpsons.

skinkmasterreturns25 Nov 2017 12:38 a.m. PST

Hardly a fan here,considering I dont own a single BTD figure. Im sure if we ran a poll,NOT having a lead pile would be the abnormality.

Guthroth25 Nov 2017 7:05 a.m. PST

I've always been happy with the service from BTD. I think Murphy has it about right, folk are spoiled nowadays.

By the way, here in the UK 'Numpty' is a very soft criticism usually used about someone who doesn't have the wits to realise they made a mistake.

Gone Fishing25 Nov 2017 9:17 a.m. PST

I've always had excellent service from BTD, USA.

It seems there might have been a foul-up in this case stuff happens. Deleted by Moderator

Winston Smith25 Nov 2017 9:20 a.m. PST

I'm still waiting for an order I mailed to the UK back in 1985.
And I had to drive all over Wilkes Barre to find a bank that did money orders in GB pounds. I had to wait until Edna got off lunch. She was the only one who knew how to do it.
I'm optimistic. But the problem is that I sold the army the order was for about 7 years ago.

DanWW225 Nov 2017 12:23 p.m. PST

You pays your money; you takes your choice.

I'm about to order from BTD and 'Blitzkrieg', knowing full well that my 40% discounted infantry and 50% discounted armour will take weeks to arrive, but arrive they will.

Just to make the 'Blitzkrieg' order APPEAR to arrive super- fast, I've also ordered some turret numbers for them from 'Dom's Decals'…

tookey2325 Nov 2017 1:54 p.m. PST

Awful business, almost fraudulent at times.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP25 Nov 2017 2:33 p.m. PST

It has taken me 1 to 3 months to get stuff, but I have always received it. Nothing I'm going to have an aneurysm over.

Wargamer Blue25 Nov 2017 6:29 p.m. PST

I have always had great service from BTD.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian25 Nov 2017 8:22 p.m. PST

And Rhysius Cambrensis has chosen to say goodbye to TMP, after throwing a bit of a tantrum, filing complaints about some of you (you are morons and racists and fan boys, he says), and sending Editor Gwen a rather wild email…

foxweasel26 Nov 2017 2:26 a.m. PST

Oh dear, how sad, never mind. No doubt he'll be on frothers later accusing us of all sorts of stuff.

Cerdic Supporting Member of TMP26 Nov 2017 3:45 a.m. PST

This is getting ridiculous! Now Caedite Eos is in the Dawghouse. This time it was clearly intended as a joke!

I am fully in favour of members not insulting each other but can we please leave a bit of room for humour?

Life without laughing would get very dull very quickly. Does anyone else agree? Maybe we need a poll!

Guthroth26 Nov 2017 5:32 a.m. PST

It's getting far too easy to take offence on the internet in general. I could type a long post about it being due to not interacting with real people enough but I'm going out to play a game …. ;-)

Cerdic Supporting Member of TMP26 Nov 2017 6:49 a.m. PST

There's a sensible feller….

Gone Fishing26 Nov 2017 6:58 a.m. PST

And so he gallops off into the sunset (no doubt cursing). It seemed to be one of those odd internet cases where a person might have a valid point to make, but their behaviour and general attitude are so histrionic and over the top that it's hard to work up much sympathy. One almost feels sorry for the company.

Winston Smith26 Nov 2017 7:18 a.m. PST

"Filing complaints…."
Where? With whom?

altfritz26 Nov 2017 7:58 a.m. PST

I've had a half dozen very successful orders from BTD over the last year and a bit. I prefer to use the UK site. I think the delays are caused by large number of orders. If it's in stock, filling an order is relatively easy. If it has to be cast, it goes into the casting queue. And that takes time. And that sort of delay happens with all companies, even GW and Warlord.

foxweasel26 Nov 2017 1:55 p.m. PST

My thoughts exactly Gone Fishing. I don't mind arrogance when people have reason to be arrogant, fast jet pilots etc (though all the ones I know are very nice) But to be arrogant on a toy soldiers site is bizarre, and he was.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian26 Nov 2017 9:32 p.m. PST

"Filing complaints…."
Where? With whom?

Hitting the Complaint Button on all of you lot. Over and over again.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian26 Nov 2017 9:34 p.m. PST

As the FAQ says…

Can I call someone one of those silly slang names they use in other countries?

A term that may sound "silly" to you, could be quite offensive to someone in the country or culture from which the term originates. So, don't go there unless you're certain the term is OK in general conversation.

Cerdic Supporting Member of TMP26 Nov 2017 11:53 p.m. PST

Cheers, Bill.

Is that extract from the FAQs about the words 'numpty' and 'berk'?

As far as I am aware, both words originate in Britain and in our country and culture neither word is regarded as offensive!

Guthroth27 Nov 2017 5:31 a.m. PST

Yup. Apparently one is Scottish and the other Cockney Rhyming slang.

deephorse27 Nov 2017 6:37 a.m. PST

His biggest mistake was spelling it incorrectly.

skinkmasterreturns27 Nov 2017 7:55 a.m. PST

What a load of BS. I placed an order with a UK maker weeks ago,as soon as they announced their Christmas sale. Nothing has shown up yet,but I am patiently waiting. Reason being that

1. it's one of the smaller companies and they are usally limited in their working capacity.

2. there is a sale on,which means Im probably not the only one ordering.

3. It was noted that said company had shows to attend.

4. Sometimes life and other Bleeped text gets in the way.

Not a word of complaint am I spreading. So Deleted by Moderator can go cry in his sock. I don't give a damn.

The Angry Piper27 Nov 2017 9:19 a.m. PST

I don't know why people are saying they are reliable when my sole experience is entirely to the contrary.

Perhaps because it's your sole experience, and others have had differing experiences. BTD US has always come through for me with no complaints. Obviously, your experience has been different, but it doesn't reflect the norm, especially with the US branch.

I don't have a lead pile, I order stuff and I get it painted and based like normal people.

To paraphrase skinkmaster, I think you would be quite surprised at how "normal" it is to have a lead pile amongst those in our hobby. You must be disciplined indeed to be able to plan and complete projects with no backlog.

keithbarker27 Nov 2017 12:17 p.m. PST

as i said earlier…

my experience is:
* good figures
* good prices (especially at sale time)
* slow service
* but they will deliver

now its up to you if you want to order!

skinkmasterreturns27 Nov 2017 3:45 p.m. PST

Ha! I got up this afternoon to find my package had been delivered by the postman.Meanwhile,during the multi-week wait,I got a tiny percentage of my lead pile painted for my current project. Not one little bit of moaning and complaining did I do about it not materializing in my hands as soon as I clicked the order button.

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