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"Flags for Loyalist units" Topic


11 Posts

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425 hits since 26 Oct 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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princeman Supporting Member of TMP27 Oct 2017 3:56 p.m. PST

Hi to all and thanks in advance.
Starting to raise some units for AWI. I read that the regiments made up of Loyalists did not have or did not carry flags into battle.
If they did, could someone direct me to pictures of their flags?
Thanks again,
Greg

princeman Supporting Member of TMP27 Oct 2017 3:58 p.m. PST

Hi to all and thanks in advance.
Starting to raise some units for AWI. I read that the regiments made up of Loyalists did not have or did not carry flags into battle.
If they did, could someone direct me to pictures of their flags?
Thanks again,
Greg

RudyNelson27 Oct 2017 4:10 p.m. PST

Systems was the same as the British. facing colors. Many Loyalist units did not carry colors into battle. I saw a copy of the Butler Rangers flag from a museum in Canada.
If I remember correctly it was a white field with a Red Cross on it.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP27 Oct 2017 4:39 p.m. PST

Rudy has it correct.
The flag for Butler's Rangers follows precisely the regulations for a unit with red facings.

This is a common topic on the AWI board. grin
My argument is that being "more British than the British", Loyalist units would prefer to fly a stand of Colours where appropriate.

Another surviving example is a faded blue guidon for the King's American Dragoons in a Canadian museum.

In my opinion, whether or not a Loyalist unit flee Colours depends on its role, and how "permanent" it was.
The Volunteers of Ireland were brought into the Establishment, so definitely.
I would give units like deLancey, Skinners, and do on Flags. Not so much partisan or militia.
The Queen's Rangers likely had Colours too.

nevinsrip Sponsoring Member of TMP28 Oct 2017 12:23 a.m. PST

I believe that BattleFlags has some generic Loyalist flags on their site.

historygamer28 Oct 2017 4:14 a.m. PST

So here's a loyalist flag question – the Royal regiment of New York is thought to originally have worn green faced red, but later – like many loyalist units – ended up in red faced blue. I wonder if the colours changed too?

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP28 Oct 2017 5:27 a.m. PST

Errrr….
Probably not. Units generally fielded a stand of Colours until they wore out and were replaced with proper ceremony.
I would do them as a red facing unit, regimental Colour with white field, St George Red Cross, Union upper left canton.
I would have a shield surrounded by wreaths in the middle of the St George Cross, with RRNY in gold on the shield.
If they had Colours at all, of course. If they operated as a line infantry unit, I would give them a stand.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP28 Oct 2017 5:35 a.m. PST

TMP link

TMP link

Two blasts from the past.

Rawdon28 Oct 2017 11:00 a.m. PST

The opinion of the historians is that what are called the Royal provincial units had a King's Color and a regimental color. I concur that units that changed their facings during the rebellion usually kept their original regimental color, but I believe it is likely that the regiments actually taken into the British Establishment would have received new colors at that time, replacing their unit name with their numerical designation in the British Line and using the facing color extant at the time of being taken into the Establishment.

historygamer28 Oct 2017 4:35 p.m. PST

Rawdon:

Do you have any documentation for your assertions or just speculation – which this period leaves a lot of room to do. Just asking.

The colours – as you all likely know, belonged to the colonel. So, if the unit designation changed (unroyal to royal, unnumbered to numbered) and if the colonel changed – what then?

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP28 Oct 2017 4:52 p.m. PST

Oh heck. By the end of the war, they were handing out blue facings like they were baloney sandwiches.
"As the colonel shall direct."
"You lot have perfectly good flags. I'm not spending another shilling an a new set. They're expensive!"

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