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"Stories I used to believe but don’t now. " Topic


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1,266 hits since 20 Oct 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 8:20 a.m. PST

Note. This is "all about YOU".
If you try to say that "a lot of people think that…." it shows that:
1. You can't read.
2. You can't follow directions.
3. You're a snob.
4. All of the above.
What I want is something that you always thought was true, until you were convinced otherwise.

Here's mine.
"The Earl of Balcarres insulted Benedict Arnold in front of George III."
Up until last night I really believed that. Then I looked it up. For as many sites that state it as fact, and the story gets really good, as many debunk it and say it never happened.
So, sadly, I must admit that it's a myth.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 8:22 a.m. PST

Can we NOT use this to take cheap shots at Religion? Please?
And remember the "10 year rule" about politics.

Oberlindes Sol LIC Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 9:22 a.m. PST

But it might take more than 10 years to change a belief!

Personal logo FingerandToeGlenn Sponsoring Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 9:39 a.m. PST

The origin of the cup-shaped champagne glass…but I'm not sure I want to believe the truth.

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 9:48 a.m. PST

For me – before I started studying the battle I believed what I was taught, that the Union and Confederate forces met at Gettysburg due to the proximity of a shoe factory.

dragon621 Oct 2017 10:02 a.m. PST

I believed what I was taught, that the Union and Confederate forces met at Gettysburg due to the proximity of a shoe factory.
So tell me the Real reason.

Winston this a great thread, I can learn a lot from it

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 10:25 a.m. PST

It had to do more to with the road network than anything

But rather than recap everything – a nice piece from the Civil War Trust on the myths of Gettysburg

link

Personal logo Texas Jack Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 10:44 a.m. PST

Until I read Shattered Sword, I believed Walter Lordīs version of the battle of Midway. I absolutely love Shattered Sword, but Lordīs Incredible Victory is still closer to my heart. grin

Personal logo piper909 Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 11:49 a.m. PST

Dated Alamo books that I grew up with led me to believe vastly inflated Mexican casualty figures. 1500 dead/and/or wounded from an attacking force of 6,000. Walter Lord *did* set those straight for me in his "A Time to Stand," when I finally read that in the later 1970s, altho' that classic is no longer reliable in many other particulars.

Also, that the Titanic sank intact.

And that Oswald was a lone nut who acted alone.

Rhysius Cambrensis21 Oct 2017 12:40 p.m. PST

I was shocked when I learned the USA wasn't a proper democracy! That was a recent realisation after reading up more on modern American politics.

Deleted by Moderator

Ceterman Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 1:05 p.m. PST

+2 Rhysius Cambrensis. Me too…

Sudwind Inactive Member21 Oct 2017 1:25 p.m. PST

I used to think that most folks were generally good-natured, but the Internet shattered that myth.

Porthos21 Oct 2017 1:31 p.m. PST

"For me – before I started studying the battle I believed what I was taught, that the Union and Confederate forces met at Gettysburg due to the proximity of a shoe factory."

Disaster Wargamer already mentioned Heth's memoires. Of course he wrote it because he did not want to go into history being the man who started a battle the South lost.

"Until I read Shattered Sword, I believed Walter Lordīs version of the battle of Midway. I absolutely love Shattered Sword, but Lordīs Incredible Victory is still closer to my heart."

Actually (like Shattered Sword showed) most writers based their history on the book written by Mitsuo Fuchida, who lead the attack on Pearl Harbour.
link
Walter Lord just used his book, like many others did, that was written in order to protect the admirals of 1941/42.

Calico Bill21 Oct 2017 1:41 p.m. PST

R.C. & CET, please note Winston's second post and abide by it.

The Angry Piper Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 1:52 p.m. PST

When I was 10 years old, someone told me that Neil Peart, the drummer from Rush (and possibly the greatest drummer in the world), used to have a drum set on an island in the middle of a lake on his property. Every morning, he would swim out to the island and play drums for six hours and then swim back.

I may have believed this story for a couple of days. When I was 10.

I don't believe it any more.

Leadjunky Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 3:10 p.m. PST

Sorry CB, I'm afraid that political tidbit is well past the 10 year rule.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 3:15 p.m. PST

*Shakes head sadly….*

138SquadronRAF Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 4:56 p.m. PST

I was shocked when I learned the USA wasn't a proper democracy! That was a recent realisation after reading up more on modern American politics.

Well that's true. America is a Republic and not a Democracy. Sorry, I married an American who was a Poly Sci Major. We talk about these kinds of things.

The whole point of the Electoral College was to prevent a demagogue from being elected president.

skipper John Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 5:34 p.m. PST

That my Dad had to walk 3 miles to school in the snow.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 5:35 p.m. PST

Actually, the whole point of the Electoral College was to prevent the large states from dominating the election. It was to make the small states relevant.
Demagoguery had nothing to do with it.

Personal logo PzGeneral Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 6:07 p.m. PST

The point of the Electoral College was illustrated in the 2016 election….

Ottoathome21 Oct 2017 7:03 p.m. PST

You got what you came for Winston.

Personal logo PrivateSnafu Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 9:52 p.m. PST

William invading Britain was universally celebrated.

Personal logo Patrick R Supporting Member of TMP22 Oct 2017 2:45 a.m. PST

Just a smattering of things I learned :

- Art is not stolen on demand by some unscrupulous collector who desires a certain piece, but is usually stolen by criminal organizations to use as collateral in major drug deals.

- A certain weapon or weapon system is rarely so radically more advanced or so hard to imagine a counter against that it will give you such an edge that you get an automatic guaranteed victory. We have seen actual advanced new weapons introduced and they only rarely matched expectations.

- The difference between calling one's propensity to accept a certain narrative as "obviously true" based on certain very specific beliefs an "Open Mind" and actually trying to have an "Open Mind" see also Confirmation bias.

- Truisms are not really valid arguments, they serve to emphasize solid arguments.

- The concept that incompetence and systemic complacency is far more often the real cause of a problem than actual malice and active plotting.

- Formations in Ancient warfare were not designed to make troops fight better, it was all about crowd management and making sure the guys in the front line didn't have to exhaust themselves to death while the guys behind them patiently waited for their turn. Battles were about winning in the first blow or outlasting the enemy, brilliant tricks only happened once in a while.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP22 Oct 2017 2:58 a.m. PST

Wrong as usual when reading my mind, Otto.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP22 Oct 2017 3:00 a.m. PST

Patrick R, while it's nice to read what you learned, none of your contributions are in line with my criteria.
I'm looking for stories you learned were wrong.

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP22 Oct 2017 3:25 a.m. PST

Oh that old.

All Americans were rifle armed sharp shooters that picked off the helpless outdated British during the American revolution.

Personal logo David Manley Supporting Member of TMP22 Oct 2017 3:28 a.m. PST

The War of 1812 was about free trade and sailors rights

Midway was an "incredible victory" won against the odds

Roderick Robertson Fezian22 Oct 2017 7:24 a.m. PST

The English declared the bagpipes a "weapon of war" after the'45.

Legion 422 Oct 2017 7:47 a.m. PST

I used to think that most folks were generally good-natured, but the Internet shattered that myth.
I've found that more and more made abundantly clear. A phenomena of the "internet uninhibited effect" I think I've heard shrinks say in the media … huh? wink

basileus6622 Oct 2017 8:16 a.m. PST

I used to believe that Colonialism was a romantic endeavour, taken by adventurers, missionaries and brave soldiers in order to advance civilization. Yep. That was when I was 12.

Personal logo piper909 Supporting Member of TMP22 Oct 2017 9:56 a.m. PST

That Spartans never retreated or surrendered.

Sigh. That was a hard one to part with.

forrester22 Oct 2017 12:56 p.m. PST

Operation Goodwood, Hans von Luck ordering an 88mm flak battery, at pistol point, to fire on British tanks.
Appears in numerous accounts, is the subject of an Osprey colour plate [so MUST be true], but the only authority is von Luck's own memoirs.

The Germans had panzerfausts at Kursk…again, that was down to an Osprey plate in their Grossdeutschland title.

Yellow Admiral Supporting Member of TMP26 Oct 2017 6:00 p.m. PST

If I say that a lot of people think that I'm a snob who can't read or follow directions, will this thread implode in an infinite recursion….?

Yellow Admiral Supporting Member of TMP26 Oct 2017 6:01 p.m. PST

Guess not.

Yellow Admiral Supporting Member of TMP26 Oct 2017 6:07 p.m. PST

"ACW battlefields were deadlier than Napoleonic battlefields."

So far as I can tell without dissertation-level research…. no they weren't.

Which leads to the next question: Wait… seriously?

Still not fully grokking this one.

- Ix

Yellow Admiral Supporting Member of TMP27 Oct 2017 12:37 a.m. PST

I was shocked when I learned the USA wasn't a proper democracy!
And for my part, *this* is one I don't believe any more. The USA *is* a democracy.

I've been hearing statements like that most of my life (usually delivered with a sneer), and I don't buy it. In what way is a republic not a democracy? This seems like an artificial and needlessly picayune exercise in mere semantics. The republican system is tempered by various procedures and limits and levels of decision making and layers of representation, but it's still government by consent of the governed, who express their will through voting. That's democracy. Voting is so rooted in American culture that we vote on *everything*, even when it's the least efficient method of making a decision – from children deciding what game to play, to groups of friends deciding what movie to see, to meeting groups deciding who should stop for doughnuts. There's no way to take democracy *out* of American culture.

- Ix

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