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"Supporting membership costs" Topic


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1,902 hits since 15 Oct 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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martin goddard Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Oct 2017 1:42 a.m. PST

Afte all the chat about supporting membership, would someone point me to the actual costs of supporting membership. Where is it on the site?

thanks for any help.

martin

Mick in Switzerland Supporting Member of TMP16 Oct 2017 1:45 a.m. PST
martin goddard Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Oct 2017 1:50 a.m. PST

Thank you Mick.

So $25 USD per year.
Is this before or after the 50% increase? i say this because the whole discussion didn't mention any numbers which would have elucidated it.

martin

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP16 Oct 2017 2:23 a.m. PST

Or, to put it in perspective for tightwad gamers, 6 packs of Peter Pig Infantry from Brookhurst, 2-1/2 packs of Perry Infantry from the Warstore.

martin goddard Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Oct 2017 3:14 a.m. PST

I personally think it is reasonable and good value. Therefore I support the forum. i would miss it if it were not there.
I do spend about £60.00 GBP a month eating out in all its forms. This might put me at the upper end of TMP incomes??

You make a very good point Winston.

However I suspect from the messages, that some TMP readers are fairly poor and $25 USD might be a major part of their non-essential expenditure for the year? Many others might be minors with parents holding the purse strings? Assuming these two categories account for about 50%(i don't actually know) of the readerships, then of the remainder, about half support the site?


martin

Andrew Preziosi Supporting Member of TMP16 Oct 2017 4:38 a.m. PST

I can afford the increase, but I WILL take advantage of the deadline.

My problem is Bill's lack of a layout of a comprehensive plan…because he never posted it in the original announcement.

All he had/has to do is show some due dilligence and add details.

If you are Supporting Member X already, your membership will be extended from the date of you existing membership for another year…

Just lay it out for all to see, read and understand…instead of just telliing us that the price of cabfaire is going up and if we wanna save some money we need to sign up by Day X and nothing else, is both:

1) Rahther poor form, eh Wot?

and

2) Kinda of a GAS attitude to his members. Like the waitress with the cig dangling out of her mouth while she brings your scrambled eggs to the table.

Bill has mumbled something to me earlier, but WHY he couldn't explain it all in his initial post…is quite beyond me.

princeman Supporting Member of TMP16 Oct 2017 4:43 a.m. PST

I am with Andrew on this. Plus we need Bill to eliminate the bugs that plague this site.

alan lockhart Supporting Member of TMP16 Oct 2017 5:11 a.m. PST

I am and probably will continue to be a supporting member as long as finances allow. However, many members may be on fixed or low incomes and being a supporting member may become too much of an expense.

Personally, the only benefit I derive, apart from the warm fuzzy feeling inside, is being able to exchange PMs. Everything else is readily available to those who do not contribute to the community.

Just as a thought, may I toss an alternative business plan into the air for Bill's consideration? Instead of increasing the cost of Supporting Membership, why not actually reduce it and provide that only Supporting Memebrs can post messaages and the like? Those who do not pay in can still access Hobby News and read messages but not take part. I would have thought that a great number of current non-supporting members would pay a relatively small amount to be able to participate.

Alan

deephorse16 Oct 2017 5:29 a.m. PST

Be careful what you wish for Alan.

Personal logo PrivateSnafu Supporting Member of TMP16 Oct 2017 8:30 a.m. PST

It seems rather pointless to post about this. It is also pointless to paint parts of the mini that no one will ever see except me so i'll do it anyway.

First off I would not be surprised if this comment or thread gets nuked. Bill has a propensity to quash any kind of criticism that would dissuade people from paying for membership.

The reason I believe that it is pointless to post about this is because Bill seems to be very intransigent in his ways lately. Bill does not want discussion about this. This is a damn the torpedos moment. I can't say that I necessarily blame him for it.

Opening a discussion about this would be a no-win situation for him. Every little weaseling whining complaint would immediately surface and spread false malcontent.

Bill is jaded about the membership. He is clearly in no mood to have discussions with members and is currently lacking the patience to make differentiation between reasonable questions and discussions and nuisance whining. If he considers you a trouble maker, you're gone. Reasonable posters beware.

There are only 2 things you get with paid membership. Permission to post to the marketplace and messaging. Messaging is helpful if you want to communicate without posting private email addresses to a public forum. Things that are free other places.

The real value is in each other. I suppose we could all just pull stakes and move elsewhere. I don't see that happening. Loyalty, habit, laziness all stand in the way of that. I'm not advocating that just pondering why we are here.

Prices go up, it's a reality. I'm a bit put off that Bill didn't bother to explain the reasons in a way that shows some gratitude and respect toward his customers. Their are many well behaved a respectful members here that deserve to be treated better than the trouble makers. Bill having to play catch-up exacerbates the irritation. We need to understand that this is a "Thank you, may I have another!" moment for us.

So we go to about $3 USD/mo next year. Normally I get something more when I pay more, even with inflation (insurance being an exception). Prime goes up, Netflix rises, internet subscriptions rises, & phone rates climb, but I get something in return. More free services, more media content and better delivery options, faster speeds, more data, etc.

I should get something more.

The bug should be fixed. It's shameful. Paying people getting their posts posted over by Tango's Peepshow or the like. It's inexcusable. It demonstrates a lack of care and is insulting. All the other free places you can get the same services do not have this.

The bug seems to be related to hitting post and not being patient then hitting it again and again or during cross posting. Perhaps the code could be changed so that once you hit post it makes the post or cross post button disappear and replaces it with a "Wait" graphic? I'm grasping here, I don't know the code or why it does what it does.

I think it's a fair bargain. Fix the bug, I'll pony up to renew.

rustymusket Supporting Member of TMP16 Oct 2017 9:15 a.m. PST

I just renewed to avoid the increase. I decided I would miss TMP if it were not here, so it will the dues paying club I will join. (I was raised to save a buck where I can, so do it now.)

Personal logo Sgt Slag Supporting Member of TMP16 Oct 2017 12:31 p.m. PST

I actually joined TMP back in the 1990's, when it was much cruder than now… I don't like the bugs, but I like this version sooo much better than the version which ran 20+ years ago! Cheers!

FusilierDan Supporting Member of TMP16 Oct 2017 3:51 p.m. PST

PrivateSnafu, you also get the Plus Boards for what that's worth. You have some valid points and hopefully the quality of the product will improve. I like TMP, quirky as it is, use it daily and so will extend my membership, the next time it comes up I will revaluate based on my percieved value.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian16 Oct 2017 4:06 p.m. PST

Bill does not want discussion about this.

I haven't hindered discussion of this in any way.

Bill is jaded about the membership. He is clearly in no mood to have discussions with members and is currently lacking the patience to make differentiation between reasonable questions and discussions and nuisance whining. If he considers you a trouble maker, you're gone. Reasonable posters beware.

The advantage of leaving much of the forum management up to Editor Gwen is that I don't have to get involved in the details. She talks to people when they are borderline in their forum participation, and often helps them understand what we expect from them.

There are only 2 things you get with paid membership.

Remember that Supporting Membership is about supporting TMP, not about what you get in return. As the 'welcome' email from Editor Gwen states: "Thanks for supporting TMP! Your membership fee helps to support this website's ongoing costs, such as the server, bandwidth, the Workbench authors and artists, and our webmasters (Gwen, Dianna, Hebber and myself)."

I'm a bit put off that Bill didn't bother to explain the reasons in a way that shows some gratitude and respect toward his customers.

I explained it was a 'cost of living' increase. That seems rather straightforward.

Bill having to play catch-up exacerbates the irritation.

You are irritated that the price rise was delayed for so long?

Prime goes up, Netflix rises, internet subscriptions rises, & phone rates climb, but I get something in return.

Prices for food, electricity, heating and housing go up.

The bug should be fixed. It's shameful.

We've made several improvements, and we continue to work on it. Have you seen a lockfile bug on the forums lately? Nor is there a single bug, but several bugs in different places.

The bug seems to be related to hitting post and not being patient then hitting it again and again or during cross posting.

You've tested this? I've seen the bug myself, and I never multi-click to post.

John Leahy16 Oct 2017 4:09 p.m. PST

I have also been here since the late 90's. I like the folks who make up the community here. That's why I believe many folks come here. It surely isn't for the bells and whistles as there are very few. I believe a 50% price increase without any explanation and no serious elimination of the bugs makes letting the community know what's up at least a needed courtesy.

EDIT-Bill seems to have replied.

Any suggestion of letting only paying customers post would likely kill TMP within a short period of time. The two week hiatus was only a small glimpse of how empty the boards were. It's a terrible idea.

YMMV.

Thanks,

John

Personal logo PrivateSnafu Supporting Member of TMP16 Oct 2017 6:45 p.m. PST

"I haven't hindered discussion of this in any way."

This is the first real discussion about it and you are allowing this so kudos to you.

"The advantage of leaving much of the forum management up to Editor Gwen is that I don't have to get involved in the details. She talks to people when they are borderline in their forum participation, and often helps them understand what we expect from them."

This is news.

"Remember that Supporting Membership is about supporting TMP, not about what you get in return. As the 'welcome' email from Editor Gwen states: "Thanks for supporting TMP! Your membership fee helps to support this website's ongoing costs, such as the server, bandwidth, the Workbench authors and artists, and our webmasters (Gwen, Dianna, Hebber and myself).""

I probably deleted that long ago. The mood of this place is that it is an enterprise.

"I explained it was a 'cost of living' increase. That seems rather straightforward."

This is the one point I would argue. You did not. You said "due to inflation" that's it. As a Supply Management professional I have blasted that out of the water scores of times. It's not a good enough reason. You have to explain. Because of inflation of services provided by other free mediums TMP is falling behind. How about that?

"You are irritated that the price rise was delayed for so long?"

No. The cost is not an issue for me. 50% is steep though. Time will tell and only you will know what your renewal rate is. I run into this situation frequently. I am a member or proxy for a number of Homeowners Associations. Some of the HOA manage poorly and have to ask for big increases to play catch up. The ones that have built in increases not requiring member approval everyone is quiet and resolved to the fact that there is an increase annually even if its only 5 bucks.

"Prices for food, electricity, heating and housing go up."

If this is not some sort of an enterprise then these things are not a cost (electricity excepted) associated with running the labor of love. Why do these things matter to me. Is it a not-for-profit? I don't mind donating to those knowing it pays staff.

"We've made several improvements, and we continue to work on it. Have you seen a lockfile bug on the forums lately? Nor is there a single bug, but several bugs in different places."

I am glad you are making progress. Please fix the rest.

"You've tested this? I've seen the bug myself, and I never multi-click to post."

I said I was grasping. I really don't know. I'm jinxing myself. Its never happened to me that I know of and I just patiently wait for posting to finalize.

I appreciate you being willing to respond.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian16 Oct 2017 8:10 p.m. PST

Any suggestion of letting only paying customers post would likely kill TMP within a short period of time. The two week hiatus was only a small glimpse of how empty the boards were. It's a terrible idea.

It's not an option I am considering, though I will tell you that the two-week hiatus was a bit of an unexpected windfall for TMP.

This is the first real discussion about it and you are allowing this so kudos to you.

I think it was mentioned in some previous threads, one of which was hit by The Bug.

50% is steep though.

Not according to the Cost of Living calculator I checked.

these things are not a cost (electricity excepted) associated with running the labor of love

Labor costs ARE our primary costs. I suspect that's true of most websites of this type.

Vigilant17 Oct 2017 5:00 a.m. PST

Interesting that the 2 week (in fact almost 2 1/2 weeks) hiatus was a windfall. Does that mean that more people than normal signed up for supporting membership?

I suspect that if it had gone on much longer you would have lost quite a few people who support the site by making it active and interesting. Certainly many of the people who welcomed the hiatus seemed to contribute little by the way of postings and were decidedly unwelcoming in their attitude of superiority because they paid to take part.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian17 Oct 2017 2:13 p.m. PST

Does that mean that more people than normal signed up for supporting membership?

Yes, it was quite surprising. And website hits remained high.

138SquadronRAF Supporting Member of TMP19 Oct 2017 6:36 a.m. PST

Winston Smith wrote:

Or, to put it in perspective for tightwad gamers, 6 packs of Peter Pig Infantry from Brookhurst, 2-1/2 packs of Perry Infantry from the Warstore.

Nicely put from the man who brags he never pays for his membership because he keeps suggesting topics for poles…….

I'm ok with the price of a Supporting membership going up.
My first year was a gift from a generous Editor. And now, thanks to my silly Poll Suggestions, I'm set until 2022, and so is the OFM. evil grin
Do, I haven't paid a dime.

I've supported the site with, largely with my own cash since I joined near 10 years ago. I continued to support it even when I requested my account be locked for a period of over 12 month, (at my own request btw). I will continue to support this site in the foreseeable future because I find it a useful resource. Even if I do not agree with the editorial policies particularly the unequal political treatments depending of the views of the post coinciding or not with those of Bill.

Legion 419 Oct 2017 7:00 a.m. PST

Like other things on TMP … No one is forced to buy a membership. Which is a good option IMO. But as always one should do what works for them.

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP20 Oct 2017 6:06 p.m. PST

Nicely put from the man who brags he never pays for his membership because he keeps suggesting topics for poles…….

But what if you're not Polish?

Personal logo piper909 Supporting Member of TMP20 Oct 2017 10:04 p.m. PST

It goes double for Hungarians!

Personal logo piper909 Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 11:42 a.m. PST

I sent in a payment to extend membership six months but have yet to receive any confirmation that this was received and processed and my extra months tacked on. How can I check my membership status to see when it expires?

Hafen von Schlockenberg Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 1:36 p.m. PST

But what if you're not Polish?"

Send a Czech!

138SquadronRAF Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2017 7:12 p.m. PST

Hafen +1

Personal logo jhancock Supporting Member of TMP23 Oct 2017 6:31 p.m. PST

You bunch of Slavic supremacists!

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