Help support TMP


"Battle of Britain Kickstarter arrives" Topic


24 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Blogs of War Message Board

Back to the Wargaming in the United Kingdom Message Board

Back to the WWII Aviation Discussion Message Board



990 hits since 13 Oct 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Red358413 Oct 2017 1:05 a.m. PST

So the long overdue (It's Kickstarter…what did you expect??) Battle Of Britain has finally arrived from PSC and it's fair to say people (including me) are less than impressed with the models. The game itself looks good and the board and counters etc are fine but the planes are all very bendy and generally poor.

I've posted some thoughts and a few photos on my blog.

link

Cheers

Personal logo PzGeneral Supporting Member of TMP13 Oct 2017 3:56 a.m. PST

Yeah….I'm a backer too and when I saw that my heart sank. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that because I paid the money for a painted set, they will be hand picked, unbendy, twisted planes.

Word over on BGG is that if you do the hot water / cold water treatment they will straighten out…..

BattlerBritain13 Oct 2017 4:29 a.m. PST

Such a disappointment.

Those models look like they've come out of a Christmas cracker.

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP13 Oct 2017 5:47 a.m. PST

Agreed.

PiersBrand13 Oct 2017 6:16 a.m. PST

I thought the planes were rather nice when they arrived this morning…

link

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP13 Oct 2017 6:24 a.m. PST

The models above look 'ok'; the pictures of the models received by the OP on his blog do not.

Red358413 Oct 2017 8:54 a.m. PST

To be fair most of mine are ok,although the overall quality isn't great. Other people have been sharing photos of planes that are much more bent out of shape than mine.

As I'd said if I was looking for models for a game like Bag the Hun this would have been a real problem…as this is a more strategic game it's just a bit frustrating, especially as PSC are capable of so much more.

Personal logo Stosstruppen Supporting Member of TMP13 Oct 2017 8:57 a.m. PST

Waiting in mine I hope it doesn't look like that. I can buy crisp like that at the dollar store.

repaint14 Oct 2017 5:44 a.m. PST

Red, I know it is not funny and I feel for you but the last picture you posted is hilarious, Just spit out my tea on the screen.

Dave Jackson Supporting Member of TMP14 Oct 2017 6:10 a.m. PST

I have been watching for this. The planes sure do look 2nd rate. I am not surprised at PSC tho, they do a good product and seem somewhat responsive to customers, but they really fall short in their customer relations/communications overall, very bush league. They don't seem to think their responses thru all the time (hence you receiving a completely unrelated model…..). The game, sans models, looks interesting and maybe high quality, but do let us know!

Personal logo David Manley Supporting Member of TMP14 Oct 2017 8:50 a.m. PST

Did you go fire one of the supervise game mats as an extra? I'm waiting for my KS parcel to arrive, w/o seeing if we get the big mats at the same time

Red358414 Oct 2017 9:02 a.m. PST

I just went for the standard set so no giant mats for me I'm afraid

Timmo uk14 Oct 2017 11:55 a.m. PST

The planes on Red's blog look dreadful. I'd send them back for a refund. When they were first announced I though PSC would be doing something like a squadron on a sprue with lovely little hard plastic planes.

Given that the game is strategic I'd have thought little wooden blocks with number counters to mimic those used on the real plotting tables would be more in keeping with the game concept.

Red358414 Oct 2017 12:07 p.m. PST

Wooden blocks would actually be really nice. I'm considering using my Skytrex planes as markers instead

Mark Barker15 Oct 2017 1:20 p.m. PST

As I mostly play tactical miniatures I ordered several extra planes of each type on the basis of the original test shots.

My first ever Kickstarter, and quite possibly my last if this is an average experience…

Also unimpressed that we are getting out of scale Zvezda kits as 'compensation' for some of the bonuses missing from the Kickstarter – how difficult can it be to find a supplier for the croupier-style movement sticks ?

Anyway, if my miniatures come out of the box looking like Red3584's they will be going straight back for a refund – Consumer Rights Act 2015 and all that … satisfactory in 'appearance and finish' and 'free from minor defects'.

Not to mention making sure to visit PSC's stand at the next big show …

I'm probably not the only one wishing I'd kept my money for Warlord's new release – but in this case I think I'll wait till I see the product in the hand before committing my money…

It is a shame, if companies need the good will and support of customers up front to be able to finance new products (a model GMT Games have followed for years with consistently high quality) then this is a sure-fire way of going out of business.

Mark Barker

stewart46A15 Oct 2017 1:30 p.m. PST

Hi Mark
I dont think a ‘Kickstarter pledge' is covered by consumer rights as it is a gamble?

Mark Barker15 Oct 2017 5:00 p.m. PST

As far as I am concerned I have a contract with PSC (the extra minis being ordered direct via PSC and then added to the Kickstarter pledge.)

And nowhere in the Consumer Rights Act does it say that purchases made electronically do not apply…

Hopefully it won't be necessary, but first point of call would be via the credit card I paid for the goods with anyway.

I've had some shocking service from wargames companies before, and hitting them in the pccket with a credit card dispute has worked in the past.

I know it is my hobby, but I have to work for that money and I expect decent goods and services, not too much to ask for really.

M.

stewart46A16 Oct 2017 1:07 a.m. PST

Unfortunately PSC has gone very quite on the bad models

stewart46A16 Oct 2017 10:49 a.m. PST

Come on Will respond to your very unhappy backers, all this bad publicity is going to sink your new game before it's launch. Bad and warped plastic models in an expensive game is not doing your company any good.

Personal logo David Manley Supporting Member of TMP16 Oct 2017 1:08 p.m. PST

This email arrived from PSC today….

"We're now aware that the flexible and robust plastic we've used on the aircraft minis has meant some have landed with our backers in need of some TLC to make them 'match fit'.
It was a hard choice for us when we looked at our plastic options – use harder, less flexible plastic that may break (wings and tailplanes are especially vulnerable to this), or go with a more pliable, softer plastic that will stand up to game play. We went with the latter – these are gaming pieces rather than scale miniatures, so we want them to stand the test of time. And we figure that a bent wing is easier to fix than a snapped wing.
However, the good news is that there's a simple fix for wonky wings and tails… we've used this method on many other games using softer plastic that we've owned over the years, so have shared our experience in the videos at the end of this update.
You'll need:
1. A bowl of cold water (the white bowl in our videos).
2. A bowl of hot water (the grey bowl in our videos).
3. The aircraft to straighten.
SERIOUS WARNING: The hot water should be *very* hot – not quite boiling but not far off – so please be VERY CAREFUL using it.
Dip the wonky plastic into the hot water – our videos give an idea of how long to do it for, and go with longer for thicker pieces. If the water is very hot, use tweezers or similar to dip with. If your hot water cools too much, it won't bend the plastic so well, so replace regularly if you're working on several aircraft. Then straighten the plastic using your fingers, and put it into the cold water still holding the plastic in position. Again, the amount of time varies, so there's an element of trial and error. It's important to do this to help to set the plastic's position.
If you don't get it perfect first time, repeat the process – it's easier to fix a severe bend by following the process several times with gentle steps rather than trying to perfect it with one big flex."

Mark Barker16 Oct 2017 5:38 p.m. PST

The statement 'these are gaming pieces not scale miniatures' does not gel with the description that is still on their website "Hard Plastic Miniatures for the Wargamer and Collector" alongside the lovely test shots of the aircraft they had at the shows last year…

Certainly did not stop PSC from taking an order from me for £30.00 GBP of additional aircraft with the obvious intention to use as miniatures.

Ah well, put the kettle on, hopefully we'll have some product to look at before long …

Mark Barker

stewart46A17 Oct 2017 5:26 a.m. PST

Thanks to Will and PSC for rectifying the problem with the models supplied and taking the hit in the wallet to find a different manufacturer and replace the models. Great service.

Red358417 Oct 2017 6:27 a.m. PST

Clearly the update from Will about straightening the models wasn't enough so this update arrived this morning…

"I am going to rework and upgrade all the plastic planes with a different, reliable manufacturer (they do work for CMON, Games Workshop, Asmodee, Cryptozoic and Flying Frog Productions) in a robust but quality plastic.

We will continue to ship everyone a game now with "wonky" plastic plus all stretch goals (except the bonus kit – another story involving customs! If you do not get one now you will with the new plastic planes). At least you can get a few hours on your logbooks!

We will then ship you all a free set of new, improved plastic planes at no extra to you when they have been tooled and moulded – to be confirmed but March 2018 seems likely. Basically it will be as soon as possible – we had not planned on this so will take time to re-tool and mould. We will also send add-on plane packs at the same time.

The retail release will be delayed until we have the new plastic minis to retrofit the rest of the print run."

All credit to Will and PSC for taking this step to put things right.

Mark Barker17 Oct 2017 12:32 p.m. PST

Sent a couple of messages directly to Will/PSC with these concerns over the last couple of nights and got immediate replies.

What an excellent response.

Red3584, thanks for putting this subject on the Forum.

Mark Barker

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.