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"Arabic script on Viking clothes" Topic


13 Posts

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446 hits since 12 Oct 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP12 Oct 2017 6:59 a.m. PST

An interesting article

link

but perhaps not too surprising after all.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP12 Oct 2017 7:26 a.m. PST

Apparently Muslim immigrants in Scandinavia go way back.

Personal logo ColCampbell Supporting Member of TMP12 Oct 2017 8:04 a.m. PST

Or the grave clothes were constructed from raided loot!

Jim

skipper John Supporting Member of TMP12 Oct 2017 8:07 a.m. PST

Too funny Winston…

LostPict Supporting Member of TMP12 Oct 2017 6:36 p.m. PST

Ibn Fadlan.

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP12 Oct 2017 9:10 p.m. PST

Not to be a sour note, but there seems to be some vested interest in the claims regarding influence, not to mention what appears to me to be potentially wishful interpretation of the pattern "looked at from all angles" "a mirrored script," etc.. Furthermore, the article's suggestion of Islamic influence on Scandinavian thought is both unsupported and feeble at best. Scandinavian myth had an afterlife long before any contact with Islam was even remotely possible, and certainly Christianity carried a Paradise element to Scandinavia much earlier than Islam could have.

My suspicion would be rather that these items were constructed of trade goods (or loot), with the Scandinavians having no knowledge of what any Arabic script might read or mean, if they even had an inkling that it was writing at all (assuming it actually is; all I see are some rough geometric shapes). So I for one will wait until these are examined by more experienced archeologists with stronger pedigrees than the ones presented in the article (which I also notied offered no alternative theories or critical examination of the claim, nor any contact with more established sources or experts in the field).

I'm going with questionable at best, if not completely bogus.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP13 Oct 2017 7:26 a.m. PST

I'm with Parzival on this.
Even mirrored, I saw no similarities.

goragrad13 Oct 2017 12:26 p.m. PST

The human brain is geared toward seeing patterns – sometimes those patterns are interpreted based on what the owner of that brain wants to see. Cloud castles and Jesus on a pizza come to mind.

In all likelihood, if the researcher is correct, as with the ring mentioned the cloth was loot or trade goods.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP13 Oct 2017 5:20 p.m. PST

I'm definitely not an Islamic scholar, but might the Name on clothing be considered blasphemous?

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP13 Oct 2017 7:17 p.m. PST

I just figured some Vikings picked up some cool duds through an extensive trade network.

jeeves15 Oct 2017 10:07 p.m. PST

I'm going with questionable at best, if not completely bogus.

Do you have any evidence for your counter claims?

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP17 Oct 2017 6:42 a.m. PST

Do you have any evidence for your counter claims?

The complete absence of any historical record of Islamic beliefs in Scandinavia? Does that count?

I offered lots of evidence in my post, actually, that rather easily refuted the claims being made. One was the belief in an afterlife in pagan Scandinavia, which far precedes the development of Islam, and ditto for the same in Christianity, which the Vikings encountered far more frequently. Not to mention that Viking culture, which featured heavy drinking, consumption of any meat on any kind of hoof, and a remarkably high status and level of freedom for women compared to Islamic cultures of the time (or even much later). Note also that when Christinaity took hold in Scandinavia, its alteration of the culture was swift and permanent, including the destruction of idols and pagan worship sites. This would also have been the result of any significant Islamic influence, extended to the destruction of Christian elements and sites. Yet this did not happen, and there are no records of Islamic influence on culture or Islam- based religious activity in the region, aside from this very dubious interpretation of patterns on scraps of cloth. So any contact with Islam was therefore brief and insignificant. As I said, more likely trade goods or loot than anything else, if they actually are of Islamic origin, which is highly doubtful.

jeeves20 Oct 2017 9:42 p.m. PST

the complete absence of any historical record of Islamic beliefs in Scandinavia? Does that count?

Be more specific. What do you meany by "Islamic beliefs in Scandinavia"?

I offered lots of evidence in my post, actually,

You had no citations in your post.
that rather easily refuted the claims being made.

Then refute them using peer-reviewed sources.
Not to mention that Viking culture, which featured heavy drinking, consumption of any meat on any kind of hoof, and a remarkably high status and level of freedom for women compared to Islamic cultures of the time (or even much later).

The Mongols drank heavily and consumed all kinds of meat. Many of them converted to Islam.

Note also that when Christinaity took hold in Scandinavia, its alteration of the culture was swift and permanent, including the destruction of idols and pagan worship sites. This would also have been the result of any significant Islamic influence,

Is the article claiming "significant" Islamic influence? If so, in your reading how does it define this term?

At any rate, Medieval Scandinavians certainly had significant contacts with Muslims during the Viking Age.

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