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""Plagiarism" on TMP. Lessons learned " Topic


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2,905 hits since 1 Oct 2017
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Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP02 Oct 2017 6:15 a.m. PST

Well, Tango01 is in the DH. Crime? Plagiarism, not providing links or attribution.
Then, the finest legal minds on TMP joined in to opine.
Legal opinions varied from "Anything goes! Do what you want! This is the internet!" to what is probably the most realistic. "Plagiarism" means using someone else's work without permission, and the perpetrator is liable for civil relief. That goes way back before the concept of "links".

I'm not a copyright lawyer, but I do pay attention to what those who are say.

The mere fact that something is "out there" does not give automatic permission to copy it. Despite the arbitrary and useless TMP "3 paragraph rule" you can't copy sections and post them here, without permission. This includes photos.

So, my advice is simple. Ask permission first and avoid problems. "Hey. I really like what you wrote about Tetrarch Lend Lease tanks. Can I put this on TMP?" Is it all that difficult?

Dynaman878902 Oct 2017 6:30 a.m. PST

> Despite the arbitrary and useless TMP "3 paragraph rule" you can't copy sections and post them here, without permission. This includes photos

As with all things "Void where prohibited by law" applies.

deephorse02 Oct 2017 6:36 a.m. PST

Isn't it easier still to just post a link to the Tetrarch article, and then, in your own words, tell us what the link will take us to? No more three paragraph walls of copy & paste text, or empty posts with just link, link, link and link in them.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP02 Oct 2017 6:45 a.m. PST

Yes. That is kosher.
"Kornbluth says that the Soviet tank crews liked its speed and mobility, but not the thin armor."
link

Dadster Supporting Member of TMP02 Oct 2017 6:57 a.m. PST

Good points Winston.

Nothing wrong with writing an original one sentence or paragraph blurb and creating a link as reference.

Personal logo Flashman14 Supporting Member of TMP02 Oct 2017 7:04 a.m. PST

Taken literally, this will basically kill any content than one's own. The internet is about sharing, and getting your work distributed. Every majot website has a plethora of share options – it's what they want you to do,.

A problem with John's point is people stealing the work of others for their own benefit. A link to the source does not imply the poster is the creator and should be credited with that.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP02 Oct 2017 7:14 a.m. PST

It might be helpful if The Editor would clarify what brought about this about face in TMP policy.
I'm suggesting future practice, which is different from what some got away with in the past.

Irish Marine Supporting Member of TMP02 Oct 2017 7:45 a.m. PST

WOW! A little over blown in my opinion. Source: Mike Tracey 2017.

VonTed02 Oct 2017 7:59 a.m. PST

Is it time for a new free Tango drive?

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP02 Oct 2017 8:02 a.m. PST

Well, Irish, "in my opinion" is not a valid legal argument. Unless you're a judge of course.

Oberlindes Sol LIC02 Oct 2017 8:26 a.m. PST

Judges don't make arguments. They issue opinions.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian02 Oct 2017 8:54 a.m. PST

It might be helpful if The Editor would clarify what brought about this about face in TMP policy.

The issue was brought to our attention via the Complaint Button, and we took action as we always do. No change in policy that I am aware of.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP02 Oct 2017 9:04 a.m. PST

So, you are still saying that the "3 paragraph" rule is valid?
That anyone posting doesn't need permission?
That the site owner or blog owner cannot deny permission?

Personal logo A sea that raged no more Supporting Member of TMP02 Oct 2017 9:06 a.m. PST

Oh dear, I like to post photos and gifs. Unless it's on TMP Talk, I usually mention and link where I obtained it from.

However, on the ever popular topic The Last Word on TMP I almost never do so. Are you saying this is wrong?

I may have to stop or have 'my' photos and gifs removed. That would mean you, Winnie, have the last word on that TMP thread!
huh?

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian02 Oct 2017 9:14 a.m. PST

So, you are still saying that the "3 paragraph" rule is valid?

It's a guideline in the FAQ.

That anyone posting doesn't need permission?

Why would you need permission to quote something? Just keep it brief, as copyright law allows (see above).

That the site owner or blog owner cannot deny permission?

Copyright law allows brief quotation (see above).

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP02 Oct 2017 10:35 a.m. PST

I think you're wrong on all of them. Read discussion on the "Mercy" thread.

14Bore02 Oct 2017 10:50 a.m. PST

On Last Word thread I really try to post title of movie ( mostly what I am doing) and picture from movie. The where I find them doesn't get a word but assume the movie is the main subject.

Personal logo PzGeneral Supporting Member of TMP02 Oct 2017 1:09 p.m. PST

What blows my mind is that someone actually hit the complaint button that triggered this latest TMP ruckus….

And that 3 days later threads are still being started about it….

Legion 402 Oct 2017 1:14 p.m. PST

It seems to happen often … unfortunately …frown

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian02 Oct 2017 5:58 p.m. PST

Read discussion on the "Mercy" thread.

If I get some spare time, I'll read it. Busy today at TMP.

Personal logo Cyrus the Great Supporting Member of TMP02 Oct 2017 7:48 p.m. PST

That the site owner or blog owner cannot deny permission?

He or she most certainly can. I have seen threads started by Tango that were removed when the owner of the blog complained. Most don't because he draws more attention to their blogs, but some do.

Legion 403 Oct 2017 6:28 a.m. PST

Wow !!!! Things seem to get pretty heated here. And it seems often does. I've been involved/collateral damage in a few of these "incidents". All I can say is for a site which revolves around grown/adults(?) playing with toys it sure has a lot of drama, derision, etc.

And it gets "highlighted" when some former members or others, again supposed adult(s) elsewhere mock, attack, berate, etc. Those here and members there as well go back and forth to that site repeatedly. Those whose only objective it to cause problems, etc.,.

Why should anyone care what another really thinks ? Agree to disagree and move on. Not go out of the way to harass, bully, etc. Well adjusted adults don't act that way.

Again it is Amazing … just amazing … when you look at this internet "phenomena" likened to cyberbullying, etc. from the outside. Behavior that one would expect from grade and high school age children. But not from adults …

Again, as I have frequently said, it's mainly the protection of the internet, like on the phone. Some weak, immature, etc. types can say anything. From a hidden secure location on the other end of the line, etc. And not get the expected response if said face-to-face. And in many cases I'd believe that response would not be very "pleasant" …

I've dealt with some types like this before. When confronted face-to-face, like all bullies, who are inherently weak, damaged, etc., individuals. They become less "mouthy", aggressive, etc. They show their true colors … they are cowards … just plain cowards. And many of us here know it.

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP03 Oct 2017 6:46 a.m. PST

"Why should anyone care what another really thinks ? Agree to disagree and move on. Not go out of the way to harass, bully, etc. Well adjusted adults don't act that way."

Agreed, well put.

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP03 Oct 2017 9:35 a.m. PST

It must be a busy day at TMP: I hit the button (with explanation) hours ago.

Hafen von Schlockenberg Supporting Member of TMP03 Oct 2017 9:45 a.m. PST

Multiple DH offenses. Only change--unbleeping one prohibited word.

Conclusion: Deliberate.

Irish Marine Supporting Member of TMP03 Oct 2017 9:56 a.m. PST

Why report anything?

Irish Marine Supporting Member of TMP03 Oct 2017 9:57 a.m. PST

I don't see anyone in the Doghouse besides Tango, or am I a victim of the bug.

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP03 Oct 2017 10:31 a.m. PST

No, Tango is the only one in the DH.

Major William Martin RM03 Oct 2017 10:37 a.m. PST

The account/membership listed as "mitochondria" is now a locked account, no DH, don't pass GO or collect $200 USD, just straight-up locked.

Legion 403 Oct 2017 11:56 a.m. PST

Sadly after I read Mitochondria's post, I was afraid that would happen. Regardless if I agreed with him or not. And I pretty much did … Sorry to see him go …

Earl of the North03 Oct 2017 12:03 p.m. PST

Is Dan still locked?

I was tempted to write bye, bye to Mitochondria after I read his post, which was a plea to be locked out if ever I've seen one.

tookey2303 Oct 2017 12:14 p.m. PST

No point complaining about vitriol and childish insults all the time when you then go and agree with someone posting childish insults and vitriol.

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP03 Oct 2017 12:49 p.m. PST

"Sorry to see him go …"

I'm not. I'm not sorry to see anyone go who can't control themselves and is willing to post what he did.

It's just not that difficult to act like a responsible adult – and – if one can't they need help.

Legion 403 Oct 2017 1:25 p.m. PST

True … but I'm pretty sure he knew what would happen he after posted that. Like I said even if I agree with him …

No point complaining about vitriol and childish insults all the time when you then go and agree with someone posting childish insults and vitriol.
I may "agree" with what he posted about a member here etc. But I know that here you can't make a post like that.

My opinion of anything is just that … regardless. Agreeing with him on a "subject" does not mean I would post it. We all have things we'd like to say to someone, or about something, etc. But know it's not going to cut it here. For obvious reasons.

And I was being honest about what was said. But not how it was posted … If I wanted to say what he posted I would have used other "more acceptable" terms. But I choose not to, again, for a number of obvious reasons.

I agree with what was said, just not how it was said …

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP03 Oct 2017 2:40 p.m. PST

Agreed: obvious membership suicide by post.

But, is that the real issue-?

Your thoughts – ?

Legion 404 Oct 2017 7:20 a.m. PST

I don't know … seems for the past few years here there has been a lot of "posting childish insults and vitriol". And I know I have been a target of some of it.

And yes, at times I'd respond in kind, but tried to use more acceptable "terms" in my reply. And I'll admit sometimes I was not successful. Like many I'm "still a work in progress".

I think part of this "phenomena" is the fact that as I said, like on a phone. You can say things you wouldn't face to face. The protection of an electronic devices provides cover. And you just don't see it here. But thru out the web. I think it may be a failing in the current state of the human condition. But I'm far from versed on such things. As I said that is just my opinion … for better or worse.

The other thing that I think contributes to such events on TMP. Is the frequent trolling on former member who Bill has thrown off the site. Many it would seem justifiably so. Some IMO … not. But once again … it is Bill domain … so …

These trolls conspire at another site that has no editing or moderation. And many of us here have been attacked and mocked etc. on that caustic swamp. If you go to that site you will see this going on.

The trolls there read what is posted here and for reasons other than they are not mature adults, very much damaged juveniles who never grew up. As I have said they just can't agree to disagree and move on.

I believe this started after Bill threw them out of this sand box. So they were so upset that they could not stay so they just went on a "terrorist troll" campaign. And attacked and mocked everything here to include Bill and others. As just an act e.g. to a child's temper tantrum because they feel they have been wronged. And deemed not "good enough" to "play" here.

So in this environment … it morphed into a situation of distrust, etc.

As I said, if you want to see what I'm taking about got to that swamp of a site. They just say rude spiteful things direct to many here. They have gone as far as post pornographic pics here to show how much disdain they have for some here, etc. I say again, is that the actions of a normal well developed individual ?

I don't go there but get informed of some of the puerile posts, etc. there. As I said, it comes down to IMO, it's like listening to a 5 year old yelling rude things at you. You have to wrire it off as their immaturity, mental state, and poor parenting, etc.

Plus as I said, these are not the actions of well developed mature individuals. But those of some damaged forms of humanity.

Do they tell their loved ones that they go on line and insult, attack, mock, etc. others on another site ? That they proved to be too immature, rude, etc. to be allowed to comment on.

Because they disagree with what was said or dislike who that person is. Because what he thinks or believes, etc.

"Look honey I told this guy online to #$@%^ ! Because
I don't like him !" Is that the action of a normal adult ? I'd think not ?

And again I'd like to meet these trolls face to face. And see how "happy" they'd be to say those things to my face. Too bad that won't happen … But I'd look forward to it …

Earl of the North04 Oct 2017 7:44 a.m. PST

If your going to insult someone at least put some effort into it, my single DH came from an incident where I personally attacked someone using Chinese quotes from Firefly.

It was a childish moment that quite rightly got me a DH, ultimately its not that hard to avoid the DH unless you simply get blindsided by a rule you didn't know existed, you cannot control yourself or you just don't care about being DH'd.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian04 Oct 2017 2:43 p.m. PST

Post from sock puppet account ("Colin Dent") removed

kcabai24 Oct 2017 5:32 a.m. PST

Sage advice

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