"Blades for WOTR in DBA 3.0" Topic

My army book is on it's way so I was curious at something.

Does the DBA 3.0 WOTR army lists make a distinction between Dismounted Knights (Blades) vs. Billmen (Blades)

I see in the draft rules there is Blades "Solid" (4Bd) and Blades "fast" (3Bd). Is there a major difference between the two kinds of units.

Thanks

Blades (Fast) move 3 BW and Blades (Solid) move 2 BW. I believe Solid Blades also give flank support to Spears and Bow whereas Fast Blades do not. Solid Blades also win ties against Knights whereas Fast Blades just tie.

Hello

Thanks for reply.

I am more curious if the WOTR army list actually contain both kinds of troops. Are Dismounted Knights and Billmen formations both considered Solid Blades in DBA 3.0.

Thanks

Are Dismounted Knights and Billmen formations both considered Solid Blades in DBA 3.0.

Yes. In army list IV/83a, DBA 3.0 refers to "lightly arnoured billmen stiffened by men-at-arms in full plate" and has both stiffened billmen as 4Bd and men-at-arms as 4Bd. 4Bd are regarded as Solid.

Yeah, I realized after I posted that you meant what were the elements in army list. Oh well.

As a suggestion, if your dismounted knights do not wear surcoat then have a fourth figure as a retainer holding his knight's banner.

This would make them easily recognizable from 'other' blade. Who knows, they just may fight better.

All good Yogi

There is no practical distinction between "billmen" and dismounted Knights in DBA 3.0 – they all count as Blades.

In Knights and Knaves (advanced game), "Polearms" get +1 v. Foot, no modifier v. Mounted and -1 v. Bowmen Shooting (for lack of shields). If "stiffened" with dismounted men at arms they don't take the -1 v. Bowman Shooting.

So a Heavy Foot w/Polearm would count +5 v. Foot; +4 v. Mounted and +3 v. Bowman Shooting.

Thomas J. Thomas
Fame and Glory Games

It just seems that for DBA the Men-at-arms and Billmen are really in mixed units. With the Knights acting as a core and billmen filling in the numbers.

That abstraction seems to make sense.

This, among other things, is why our play group moved away from DBx to ADLG. You should give it a shot!

Our group stayed with DBA. Easy to play. Simple lists. Note that the army list for WOTR is

IV/83a Wars of the Roses Armies 1455-1485 AD or Tudor Army 1486-1515 AD: 1 x General (4Bd or 3Kn), 1 x currours (Cv) or border staves (LH) or unreliable levies (7Hd), 4 x stiffened billmen (4Bd), 4 x archers (4Lb), 1 x guns (Art), 1 x Welsh (3Pk) or Irish (3Ax) or men-at-arms (4Bd/3Kn) or mercenary handgunners (Psiloi).

The General element is chosen as either a 3 figure Knight or a 4 figure men at arms element in plate armor, a Solid Blade. The 4 stands of stiffened bellmen could nicely be 3 light armor men with bills, and a plate armor man-at-arms with pole arm. Maybe 2 and 2. They are solid blades. The last item, 1 x men-at-arms, like the general can be a 3 figure knight or a 4 figure foot men-at-arms element – solid blade.

Note the /. This means that in a tournament, mounted type can be replaced by the foot type before deployment in a game. So you can pick from game to game what you will use. Sort of a quasi-dismountable element. The general element, with an "or" must be the same for all games. If there were a // between the types, then you could dismount the knight element during the game.

Because some players thought that it was strange that 3 Knight figures dismounted to 4 Blade figures, Phil made a special rule --"Knights that have dismounted as blades can be based with 3 figures as when mounted." While these elements are based with 3 Blade figures, they count as Solid Blades. This applies to both the / and the // options.

Didn't mean to be over critical of the DBX abstraction re Blades. Have played both ADLG and many versions of DBX and would stick with DBX for the War of the Roses.

TomT